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Thread: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    I don't shoot innocent people in cold blood on my front porch out of a paranoid fear because I think the law says I can.
    Your attempt at projection is baseless, feeble and very poorly executed.
    FYI I happen to enjoy old west movies, but I have the ability to realize that the morals and sensibilities of that historical period no longer can, or should, apply to modern society.
    DO you have any proof this guy shot through the door because he thought the law said he could?

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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Plain, simple and wholly incorrect where the law is concerned. You can use deadly force if you reasonably believe that deadly force is about to be used on you. Someone raises what appears to be a gun (that turns out to be a toy) and you blow them away, it's still self defense even though your life was not in danger.
    The problem here of course is that what is and is not reasonable is very subjective and when making the wrong choice results in someone's death it seems unwise to provide wiggle room
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptyme View Post
    I would hate to be a juror in this case. Seems like without any video or audio evidence it would be hard to know whether this was legit self defense or murder.

    As far as changing the laws I disagree. Obvious solution would be for people to not step foot on another person's property (especially not high/drunk in the middle of the night). If he did shoot her for simply being black I hope he gets the needle.
    Unfortunately it's not that simple. This guy probably genuinely felt threatened and I highly doubt that he made a conscious choice to shoot her "for being black". There lies the complexity of the issue. This kind of prejudice is so embedded in our (meaning white people) Psyche that we don't see it. He probably has no idea that his fear in part of this unarmed girl was fueled by what he has been taught just by being a part of white america. I think the majority of white Americans inherited it and don't see it in themselves.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptyme View Post
    Regardless of race, if you were to see a stranger on you property in the middle of the night I doubt many would say you would be overly paranoid by feeling threatened. Now is that person is on drunk and on drugs there is no telling how the situation went down. She could have been out of her mind at that poimt in time and the old man felt genuinely scared for his life.

    Without having been there or seeing all of the evidence to condemn this man as some kimd of racist cowboy is a bit premature. If he is then I hope justice gets served but I believe in innocent until proven guilty or is that no longer acceptable.
    Feeling concerned or possibly curious about whether or not they posed a threat is pretty reasonable. Shooting them in the face without any more information then that they were on your porch after dark and perhaps a little freaked out over something is not.

    She was a young girl. I can't imagine that even if she was on drugs or drunk or something that the voice of this girl could not be understood as exactly that...the voice of a young girl. How much of a threat could a man possible consider a young girl on his front porch in the middle of the night to be? Enough to not open the door? That seems reasonable. Enough to just shout through the screen .."I've got a gun you need to go to another door"? That seems reasonable. Enough to shoot her dead? Not so much
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    The attempts to turn a self-defense law into some kind of racist issue is ludicrous and disingenuous.
    I assure you, anyone who threatens me will receive my due attention with complete disregard for race, creed, gender, color or nationality. My only concerns at that point will be sight picture and trigger squeeze.
    Once again no one is challenging your right to defend yourself against a legitimate threat. Legitimate being the critical word there.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Some cultures are inherently more violent than others regardless of the availability of weapons.
    What are you saying exactly?
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    The jury will hear the case. One of the judgments they will make is whether the shooting passes the reasonable man test.


    Based on the information WE have available (from the news, a notoriously unreliable source), it does not look reasonable. But what other information a jury may yet see, I cannot say. Thus I reserve judgment and decline to accept the notion that he MUST be found guilty or something is wrong.
    Yes, let's wait and see what facts emerge. Crazy idea, I know, but it might just work!

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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    No. The case doesn't fit murder.
    The jury is going to wonder why she was two times over the legal limit 3½ hours later, and where she had been to get that way.
    And being that drunk, they will instinctively know she wasn't looking for any assistance.
    The jury will instinctively know that an unarmed 19 year old girl, so drunk she can barely function would not be much of a threat to anyone and that a shotgun blast to the face is completely unwarranted.
    Murder.

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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Feeling concerned or possibly curious about whether or not they posed a threat is pretty reasonable. Shooting them in the face without any more information then that they were on your porch after dark and perhaps a little freaked out over something is not.
    As you already know she was not purposely shot in the face. So you characterizing it that way flies in the face of the known facts.
    Your not recognizing that skews everything you say.


    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    She was a young girl. I can't imagine that even if she was on drugs or drunk or something that the voice of this girl could not be understood as exactly that...the voice of a young girl.

    You know not how she sounded, especially out of her gourd like she was.





    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    The jury will instinctively know that an unarmed 19 year old girl, so drunk she can barely function would not be much of a threat to anyone and that a shotgun blast to the face is completely unwarranted.
    Murder.


    No they wont.
    Especially with the evidence of her ruckus and trying to break-in.
    And being that much out of her gourd, and the evidence as is, it is likely that they will understand how she could create such a ruckus leading him to believe she was trying to break-in, because she was trying to get in.
    And your characterization is also off. She was not purposely shot in the face.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Yep, totally justified. I mean when someone is banging on my door to where I think it could even be multiple people and I can't find my phone, I grabbed my thought to be unloaded shotgun and open one of the doors.

    Didn't the article in the op (or maybe someone posted from it/another) the autopsy showed the shot wasn't from close range?

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