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Thread: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

  1. #131
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Combine stupid cowboy laws that allow murder based on how someone "feels" with racist paranoia and this is your result.
    Gun fetishists see all their perceived fears, no matter how wrong they may be, as targets.
    Shoot first and ask questions later castle laws are a recipe for murder.
    that's a really stupid attempt to depict stand your ground laws.

    you have to establish a reasonable fear of severe bodily harm

    as I noted when this story came out, I believe he should be charged. There is no rational argument he could reasonably fear the person he shot



  2. #132
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Yup. Never said otherwise.


    But if I end up having to confront thieves, rest assured I will be armed and primed to shoot if need be.... because stealing is not an indication of character which makes me feel that they will respect my right to life and the integrity of my person.
    That's not the debate G. The point is that people who ARE NOT thieves are being shot
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  3. #133
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Just because you're standing on my porch yelling at me doesn't give you the right to shoot me dead because, "I was afraid she was going to force her way into my home." Shut and Lock The Damned Door.
    That isn't what happened here, is it?


    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    but showing up at one's front door with a gun in one's hand shows a certain premeditation that makes me nervous. And if you had time to run and get it? You had time to Shut and Lock The Damned Door.
    1. WTF? Premeditation? Sure, to defend oneself. It also seems like it would say to the other person; "Behave yourself lest the individual mistake your actions for that of a crook".
    2. As people have the right to self defense, no one should be forced or required to "Shut and Lock The Damned Door.", ever.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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  4. #134
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    That's not the debate G. The point is that people who ARE NOT thieves are being shot
    if they are not thieves but say rapists, murderers or kidnappers

    I am ok with that

    if they are merely stoned, drunk or lost

    I am not



  5. #135
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Her family has suggested that she may have come to the door seeking help.
    And yet there was no evidence to suggest she was seeking any help.
    But there is evidence that she previously turned it down.

    For all we know, she thought she was trying to get into her drug dealers house.


    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    But Mr. Wafer’s lawyers said she pounded repeatedly on the doors, broke part of a screen and a peephole and may have left a muddy footprint on Mr. Wafer’s air conditioning unit, which might, the lawyers said, have given Ms. McBride a view inside a room where Mr. Wafer had been sleeping. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/24/us...orch.html?_r=0
    And the initial claim was that the firearm accidentally discharged. Which would make it manslaughter.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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  6. #136
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    And you'll find I've never argued otherwise. It would have been far more prudent to have adopted a less aggressive course of action, based on such information as is available.


    And regardless of his belief that he could do so under the law, he's been charged and there is going to be a trial... so the system is working as it should, and all the assertions that it isn't are spurious.
    As long as the law contains only the requirement of belief or feeling of threat to justify a killing, the concerns of a miscaridge of justice are not spurious

  7. #137
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    That's not the debate G. The point is that people who ARE NOT thieves are being shot

    The line of debate zigged towards thievery, so I zagged.



    In any case.... er, what were we arguing about again?

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  8. #138
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    As long as the law contains only the requirement of belief or feeling of threat to justify a killing, the concerns of a miscaridge of justice are not spurious
    ... if you completely ignore the "reasonable man standard", as you so ably continue to do.

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  9. #139
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptyme View Post
    Oh, did not see that in the article. Yeah shooting someone though a door is not self defense in my opinion.
    Not what happened.





    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    Oh good, then this man should go to jail because that's what this girl was doing.
    No that wasn't what the girl was doing.





    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    You are attempting to make the wrong analysis:

    - The proscecution does not need to prove that the shooter did not have "feeling "X" ".

    - Rather, the shooter needs to prove that the feeling was reasonable. Nobody is going to question him as to whether or not he actually had feeling "X".

    How "reasonable" is defined in regards to self defense can vary from state to state and from county to county. That aside, this idiot would be in trouble in even the most pro gun counties. I hope he gets convicted.
    Wrong. It is the Prosecutor who must prove that the defendants actions were not reasonable.
    The defendant doesn't have to prove that they were.





    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    just

    stop yelling at maggie for an different opinion than you!!!!
    Emboldening or emphasizing, is not yelling.
    All caps is yelling. eg: YELLING!, YELLING!


    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Just make sure you actually ARE a victim before you kill someone. Is that REALLY too much to ask?
    By what you mean by that, yes that is way to much to ask.
    But the fact that they have already invaded makes them a threat.





    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I don't think the law is the issue here. I think Wafer's judgment is. I can't think of too many reasonable circumstances under which an unarmed teenage girl on the opposite side of a locked door poses a threat. 2nd degree murder seems about right.
    He claimed the gun accidentally discharged. That is nothing more than manslaughter.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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  10. #140
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    if they are not thieves but say rapists, murderers or kidnappers

    I am ok with that

    if they are merely stoned, drunk or lost

    I am not
    Dude! What took you so long?!
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

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