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Thread: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

  1. #101
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    The simple fact that these laws contain the wording "feel threatened" instead of "are threatened" give the level of certainty away to an emotional state and creates a fuzzy non-specific reason to kill.
    When the weight of reason is applied only to a feeling and not to solid evidence of a real threat the law panders to those who like the idea of knee-jerk shooting instead of well considered responsible defense.
    The wording matters. Any form of the word "feel" has no place in any law concerning life and death.

    You haven't read the law, apparently. I have. It doesn't say "feel".


    It says:

    "If the person was in imminent danger of death or grave bodily harm, or believed himself to be in imminent danger of death or grave bodily harm, and if a reasonable man in the same circumstance would also believe himself to be in imminent danger of death or grave bodily harm..."


    This is a necessary and ESSENTIAL provision that is in almost every state's laws. It is necessary to deal with situations where, for instance, a robber points what appears to be a real gun at you and says "your money or your life!"... and it turns out to be a fake gun after he's shot dead. Yes, this has happened. This is why the "reasonable man test" is there for "believed there to be a threat."


    It would be nice if people would try to have a little knowledge about a topic before pontificating on it.

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  2. #102
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    What kind of world are you endorsing here. One where a person can't approach a strangers house without fear of being shot dead?! Really? It's an absurd overreach.

    The problem is the way some of these laws are written and promoting the idea that they be cleaned up so that we don't just create a whole new group of victims is not the same as opposing the concept of people having the right to protect themselves against an "actual" threat

    What kind of world are you promoting? Where homeowners fear to defend their home and family perhaps.

    No one is promoting that you can just shoot someone for walking up to your door in the normal fashion. That is already illegal; furthermore it isn't what happened in this case. Having someone pounding on your doors and windows in the middle of the night, and damaging them apparently, is not the same as capping the Avon lady for ringing the door bell.

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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    And we object to your pleas to give home invaders a safe working environment.
    Suddenly the guy stealing your leaf blower from the shed is invading your home?
    That is a quantum leap in logic, perception and reason.
    Theft is not a threat to life and should never be met with deadly force.

  4. #104
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    The simple fact that these laws contain the wording "feel threatened" instead of "are threatened" give the level of certainty away to an emotional state and creates a fuzzy non-specific reason to kill.
    When the weight of reason is applied only to a feeling and not to solid evidence of a real threat the law panders to those who like the idea of knee-jerk shooting instead of well considered responsible defense.
    The wording matters. Any form of the word "feel" has no place in any law concerning life and death.

    Absolute nonsense.

    Of-course you should be able to defend yourself if you FEEL threatened.

    What a joke.

    What ? Are the Cops supposed to be the ones who determine the threat level ? A jury ? And when are they supposed to do this ? While they're trying to figure out who killed you ?

    A uninvited stranger entering into your home while you are home constitutes a threat towards you and your Family.

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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Suddenly the guy stealing your leaf blower from the shed is invading your home?
    That is a quantum leap in logic, perception and reason.
    Theft is not a threat to life and should never be met with deadly force.
    Most homes have attached gargages that access into you Kitchen and or Laundry area.

    Its not the 1940s you know.

    But speaking if quantum leaps in logic, is the victim supposed to know that that leaf blower is all that criminals interested in ?

    Or should the home owner just ask the nice burglar ? " Are you just interested in my lawn equipment sir, or something more " ?
    Last edited by Fenton; 07-23-14 at 08:09 PM.

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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post

    No one is promoting that you can just shoot someone for walking up to your door in the normal fashion. That is already illegal; furthermore it isn't what happened in this case. Having someone pounding on your doors and windows in the middle of the night, and damaging them apparently, is not the same as capping the Avon lady for ringing the door bell.
    If the Avon lady got a little too aggressive with the door knocker ...one need only feel she wanted to damage the house...Then it's open fire, I feel threatened. Under the wording of these laws he burden of proof is only on the feeling and not to a real threat.

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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Suddenly the guy stealing your leaf blower from the shed is invading your home?
    That is a quantum leap in logic, perception and reason.
    Theft is not a threat to life and should never be met with deadly force.
    If you enter my property with the intent to steal my stuff, it had better be worth your life. Sorry, facing an armed homeowner is an occupational hazard of burglary and residential theft.
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    Mahatma Gandhi


  8. #108
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    If the Avon lady got a little too aggressive with the door knocker ...one need only feel she wanted to damage the house...Then it's open fire, I feel threatened. Under the wording of these laws he burden of proof is only on the feeling and not to a real threat.

    I've already informed you that this "feel" thing you've fixated on, is NOT what the law says.

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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    You haven't read the law, apparently. I have. It doesn't say "feel".


    It says:

    "If the person was in imminent danger of death or grave bodily harm, or believed himself to be in imminent danger of death or grave bodily harm, and if a reasonable man in the same circumstance would also believe himself to be in imminent danger of death or grave bodily harm..."


    This is a necessary and ESSENTIAL provision that is in almost every state's laws. It is necessary to deal with situations where, for instance, a robber points what appears to be a real gun at you and says "your money or your life!"... and it turns out to be a fake gun after he's shot dead. Yes, this has happened. This is why the "reasonable man test" is there for "believed there to be a threat."


    It would be nice if people would try to have a little knowledge about a topic before pontificating on it.
    Actually the law is not devoid of the notion of "feeling" and I don't think most would want them to be. Assault laws require, at least, the victim feel pain. Actually inflicting feelings of pain and/or terror, are in and of themselves offenses and should be.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
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    Re: Homeowner Who Shot Dead A Teen Girl On His Porch Faces Murder Charges This Week

    I don't think the law is the issue here. I think Wafer's judgment is. I can't think of too many reasonable circumstances under which an unarmed teenage girl on the opposite side of a locked door poses a threat. 2nd degree murder seems about right.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

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