Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

Goshin said:

1. I never said ants. I said insect-LIKE. Meaning highly cooperative among their own kind, but possibly having little or no empathy for those not of their kind.

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No one said you stated "ants". They were given as an example as to why a hive species wouldn't be suitable for any realistic form of space travel.

It doesn't seem likely that a civilization with a "hive mind" would engage in interstellar traveling. A civilization with hive mentalities would most likely stall at a Type I civilization (which is not enough for interstellar travel). Why do I think this? ... let's take some examples on our own planet:

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2. I am familiar with these arguments, but they are based on assumptions about things we know nothing of and can merely speculate upon. Also, the parameters for interstellar travel are not necessarily fixed by low-end assumptions such as taking 10,000 years for the journey.

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I'm going to get back to this in a few lines.

.. if that is the case we will probably never meet any aliens at all.

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That's the thing about the size of the universe, we're more than likely to never meet any interstellar travelers because the factors involved in doing so make the possibility as astronomical as the possibility for the existence for life itself.

However recent recalculations regarding the Alcubierre Drive indicate that 'FTL' may not be science fiction, but a real possibility.... just to name one factor that could change a lot of the assumptions commonly made.

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I wanted to get back to this:

It doesn't seem likely that a civilization with a "hive mind" would engage in interstellar traveling. A civilization with hive mentalities would most likely stall at a Type I civilization (which is not enough for interstellar travel). Why do I think this?

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You're assuming that a hive species would be developed to the point where this "possibility" has been true and tested to the point where it is used for a full scale invasion. Even our own scientists admit that testing for such a thing is centuries away. Now, imagine a hive species (with all we know about them) being developed to the point where it has scientists researching such a method, it has already tested it and is confident enough to use it to attack other planets. On a basis is contrary to all that we know about hive species, development of mathematics and pretty much all evidence about the development of intelligence. I know biology and evolution are tough topics for the religious, but try and use them when debating subjects such as this. We're not going to find an alien species a-la Space Invaders hellbent on conquering us.

RabidAlpaca said:

Bahahahahahahaha... He's a ****ing alien calvanist? As in, he honestly believes that an omnipotent, "merciful" god, created a universe with other life then doomed all of them to eternal hellfire because someone on another planet ate an apple.

What kind of a sick, hateful person do you have to be to believe something like that?

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The guy in the article?

One thing to note for these kinds of threads in the future, things like FTL travel are only theoretical at best, we're not sure if that is even physically possible, should it not be possible then this is all a waste of time because going from system to system can take dozens of years and should other species be on other galaxies it would take millions to maybe even billions upon billions of years to reach another galaxy.

Luftwaffe said:

One thing to note for these kinds of threads in the future, things like FTL travel are only theoretical at best, we're not sure if that is even physically possible, should it not be possible then this is all a waste of time because going from system to system can take dozens of years and should other species be on other galaxies it would take millions to maybe even billions upon billions of years to reach another galaxy.

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FTL does exist, humans just haven't discovered it yet. Like so many other things that didn't exist........................until they did!

Montecresto said:

FTL does exist, humans just haven't discovered it yet. Like so many other things that didn't exist........................until they did!

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Please don't speak out of your :moon:

Outside of video games and movies we aren't even sure if FTL is POSSIBLE. It's not a matter of discovering FTL travel it's a matter of even proving it's existence or lack thereof.

Quag said:

Has the internet increased the number of crazy people or just made them more visible?

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I think the latter. The internet gives them a way to communicate their craziness.

Cardinal said:

In one or two easily digestible sentences, please explain why you believe reaching out to aliens is rational, and not likely to result in our destruction.

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The biggest variable is technological disparity, we put things on voyager I (or II correct me if I'm wrong) that had coordinates back to Earth should "aliens" discover it, for all we know the aliens may also have a voyager I and be no more technologically advanced than we are.

Plus if we prove the existence of ET intelligent life it would have a positive outcome. If the world thinks they are hostile? I guarantee you, there will be no countries, there will only be humanity. If they are friendly? Looks like the future is going to be very bright with economic prosperity and scientific discovery and culture exchange and more.

That's why it is rational to reach out in my opinion. Humanity works better together, not divided.

And if the aliens were advanced enough to just wipe us out without a care, you really think they wouldn't have known us by now?

There is absolutely positively nothing we can lose by reaching out to aliens, but there is everything to gain.

I'd like to think I'm not cynical enough to think a civilization advanced enough to get here (since we're obviously nowhere close to going there) would come here simply to be hellbent on our destruction.

Now, I understand that the European powers basically treated the Americas as their prison bitch for several centuries, but the leap of technology (and, what I would hope, would be a similar leap in enlightenment) it took to get from Europe to the Americas (again) pales in comparison to the same type of leap to get to Earth from, say, Proxima Centauri. But it's the only frame of reference we have.

Maybe it's the eternal optimist in me, but I see first alien contact to be more Vulcan and less Klingon. And I do think it will happen within the next 50 years. I hope I'm still here to see it.

Funny thing is that it is quite possible that all life on earth is alien life. There are several theories out there that believe it is possible life was sparked by an asteroid hitting the earth..

Luftwaffe said:

Please don't speak out of your :moon:

Outside of video games and movies we aren't even sure if FTL is POSSIBLE. It's not a matter of discovering FTL travel it's a matter of even proving it's existence or lack thereof.

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Yeah, pull your pants up young man. The same was thought of electricity, round earths, and all manor of other yet to be discovered phenomena.

Interesting thing is that even if the probability of life existing is 1 in a billion, that means life does exist somewhere else. There are more than a billion objects in our own small solar system. When you start counting how many stars there are in the universe you will find that number to be much more than a billion. Then consider all the planets circling those stars and you will determine that life MUST exist somewhere else. The other interesting idea is that the universe is nearly 14 billion years old. So not only do you have to think about the life that may exist now, but life that may have existed in other places of the universe and died out before there was even a single celled organism on earth. Humans with significant intelligence to even think about looking for life elsewhere have only existed for the last 200-300 years. Prior to that, we had very little notion of anything outside of earth. We just happen to be at a stage of life on earth where it is possible for us to look out at the universe in search of life. There may be other planets in the universe that have life, but the life that exists may only be in its infancy. Or, perhaps life as intelligent and complex as life on earth exists elsewhere but it is to far away for us to detect it, and we are to far away for it to detect us. If you just think about how far away potential life may be, it could be thousands or millions of light years away making it nearly impossible for meaningful contact to be made. We could send them a message and it could take them thousands of years to recieve it, at which time they may be, or we may no longer exist. So to find life elsewhere that is sufficiently able to communicate with us, even as probably it is that it exists, is very improbable due to the constraints the laws of physics put on us.

But that does not mean we should stop looking .

Montecresto said:

Yeah, pull your pants up young man. The same was thought of electricity, round earths, and all manor of other yet to be discovered phenomena.

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In one ear, right out the other, until FTL is proven possible I can hardly give a **** if you think it does exist and just has to be discovered. That kind of thinking (like scholasticism) died out a loooong time ago.

Luftwaffe said:

In one ear, right out the other, until FTL is proven possible I can hardly give a **** if you think it does exist and just has to be discovered. That kind of thinking (like scholasticism) died out a loooong time ago.

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Quit getting your knickers in a knot.

Luftwaffe said:

In one ear, right out the other, until FTL is proven possible I can hardly give a **** if you think it does exist and just has to be discovered. That kind of thinking (like scholasticism) died out a loooong time ago.

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There is already a theoretical basis for "FTL". Alcubierre drive.


Granted, we're no where near building one... but most of my life FTL wasn't even a theory, it was considered impossible. Now, not so much. I consider that promising.

Goshin said:

There is already a theoretical basis for "FTL". Alcubierre drive.


Granted, we're no where near building one... but most of my life FTL wasn't even a theory, it was considered impossible. Now, not so much. I consider that promising.

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But that's what I'm trying to say, FTL is theoretical, WE DO NOT KNOW IF IT IS POSSIBLE. It may be physically impossible to move past FTL speeds outside of maybe Tachyons.

Faster-than-light - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not the best source but read the final sentence in the first part of that wiki page.

That last sentence summarizes everything I have ever said on this thread regarding FTL. FTL itself is questionable and the possible ways of achieving it are no less questionable. FTL travel of any kind is absolutely positively not yet confirmed possible.

Luftwaffe said:

But that's what I'm trying to say, FTL is theoretical, WE DO NOT KNOW IF IT IS POSSIBLE. It may be physically impossible to move past FTL speeds outside of maybe Tachyons.

Faster-than-light - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not the best source but read the final sentence in the first part of that wiki page.

That last sentence summarizes everything I have ever said on this thread regarding FTL. FTL itself is questionable and the possible ways of achieving it are no less questionable. FTL travel of any kind is absolutely positively not yet confirmed possible.

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But it will be.

I think it's funny to see people who think we should keep looking for aliens mocking someone else for having a silly belief.

Papa bull said:

I think it's funny to see people who think we should keep looking for aliens mocking someone else for having a silly belief.

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Difference, aliens are 100000X more likely than most things. Look at size of universe, unless you're stupid enough to think Earth = universe

If aliens did land on Earth without passports, would we deport them?

Luftwaffe said:

Difference, aliens are 100000X more likely than most things. Look at size of universe, unless you're stupid enough to think Earth = universe

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Wow. That was a ridiculous statement. Aliens are 1000000x more likely then "most things".

Let me clue you in on something. The possibility that there is life somewhere else in the universe is probably quite good. But the possibility of that life being close enough to visit the Earth is real close to zero regardless of the technology involved.

Dittohead not! said:

If aliens did land on Earth without passports, would we deport them?

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No. Not unless they landed in the United States. Anywhere else wouldn't be our business. But if they're here, we have to figure out a way to send them back. That could be a challenge but...... it's the right thing to do. Just sayin'.

Papa bull said:

Wow. That was a ridiculous statement. Aliens are 1000000x more likely then "most things".

Let me clue you in on something. The possibility that there is life somewhere else in the universe is probably quite good. But the possibility of that life being close enough to visit the Earth is real close to zero regardless of the technology involved.

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Told everyone, the possibility of any contact lies with the plausibility of FTL travel.

If there was a way to travel FTL you'd be surprised how easy it would be to contact anything if there's other aliens (most likely) in our galaxy.

Luftwaffe said:

Told everyone, the possibility of any contact lies with the plausibility of FTL travel.

If there was a way to travel FTL you'd be surprised how easy it would be to contact anything if there's other aliens (most likely) in our galaxy.

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Here's the rub. Not only would something have to travel faster than light, but it would have to travel MANY TIMES faster than light to traverse the universe. It would require incomprehensible amounts of energy. We would be better off spending our time looking for bigfoot than alien visitors from other planets. I don't believe bigfoot exists, either, but at least bigfoot is feasible.

Papa bull said:

Here's the rub. Not only would something have to travel faster than light, but it would have to travel MANY TIMES faster than light to traverse the universe. It would require incomprehensible amounts of energy. We would be better off spending our time looking for bigfoot than alien visitors from other planets. I don't believe bigfoot exists, either, but at least bigfoot is feasible.

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No need to traverse the deep deep space in our whole universe, just the galaxy alone will do.

According to special relativity something needs infinite energy to travel at light speed, if there's a way to surpass light speed then you can probably EASILY go as many times faster than light as you want, it's just a matter of time and technological advance at that point, the whole question is whether FTL is plausible, what don't you understand?

Luftwaffe said:

No need to traverse the deep deep space in our whole universe, just the galaxy alone will do.

According to special relativity something needs infinite energy to travel at light speed, if there's a way to surpass light speed then you can probably EASILY go as many times faster than light as you want, it's just a matter of time and technological advance at that point, the whole question is whether FTL is plausible, what don't you understand?

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The question of whether FTL is plausible pretty much sorts out the rest. Nothing in the universe has ever been known to exceed the speed of light, so asserting that finding alien life is 100000X more likely than many things is pretty absurd for several reasons, not the least of which is the implausibility of travel many times faster than the speed of light and the ability to generate the infinite energy required to do it.