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Thread: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Everything about the development of civilization tells us that rights become more and more respected with time. An advanced civilization, maintaining a realistic trajectory of development, would be far more decent than we are. This assessment is based on reality.

    Your "aliens are probably evil" is based on nothing except Chicken Little 'sky falling' hysteria. There's no reason to believe an advanced civilization has regressed as opposed to advanced in regard to civility.

    Your assessment is counter to all known evidence.



    ps. Hawking was not a sociologist. His "assessment" of aliens is meaningless. He was just complaining about the world being crappy, and that's all you're doing.



    Um, dude.... that is based on observing only ONE intelligent species, and any generalizations based on a sample of ONE are very suspect. Indeed, to assume respect for rights increases with time you have to focus mainly on the West and ignore about half the world.


    Aliens, on the other hand, could be very different from us; so different we may not be able to imagine or comprehend how much so. They might be extremely cooperative and respectful of each other within their own species.... and at the same time have decided it is in their best interest to exterminate all sapients not of their kind. We have no way of knowing.

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Um, dude.... that is based on observing only ONE intelligent species, and any generalizations based on a sample of ONE are very suspect. Indeed, to assume respect for rights increases with time you have to focus mainly on the West and ignore about half the world.


    Aliens, on the other hand, could be very different from us; so different we may not be able to imagine or comprehend how much so. They might be extremely cooperative and respectful of each other within their own species.... and at the same time have decided it is in their best interest to exterminate all sapients not of their kind. We have no way of knowing.
    So, regarding aliens, you are disregarding the evidence we do have, ignoring logic and reason, and substituting random ideas? That's quite an assessment.

    Regarding the West, the question at hand regards "the strong". Only illegitimately reducing context, from geopolitics to local politics, allows substituting weak nations in the position of the strong. We, the West, are the strong. Ignoring that trashes the discussion in regard to temporal extrapolation.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 07-31-14 at 08:40 PM.

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    So you are disregarding the evidence we do have, ignoring logic and reason, and substituting random ideas? That's quite an assessment.


    Hardly random. A subject I've been contemplating and intermittently studying for about forty years.


    My point is that assuming the aliens would have a societal development that looks like human Western civilization is as big of an assumption, as assuming they'd literally LOOK like humans.

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Hardly random. A subject I've been contemplating and intermittently studying for about forty years.
    And you totally lack evidence. Man, I came up with some off the top of my head. It only took me a minute.

    See if you can come up with any evidence, logic or reason why aliens would be evil. I'll give you another 40 years.

    My point is that assuming the aliens would have a societal development that looks like human Western civilization is as big of an assumption, as assuming they'd literally LOOK like humans.
    Nonsense. Social development is presumably a part of any intelligent species. Do you have evidence otherwise? Because I DO have evidence that this is the case.

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    And you totally lack evidence. Man, I came up with some off the top of my head. It only took me a minute.

    See if you can come up with any evidence, logic or reason why aliens would be evil. I'll give you another 40 years.



    Nonsense. Social development is presumably a part of any intelligent species. Do you have evidence otherwise? Because I DO have evidence that this is the case.



    It's like thinking all cats are black, because you've only ever seen one cat and it was black.


    Assuming aliens will be anything like humans is a HUGE assumption.


    It's like how astronomers tended to think other solar systems would be a lot like our own... until they started discovering exoplanets and realized that most of their assumptions about other solar systems were wrong.... because they'd previously had only one to compare.

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post


    Aliens, on the other hand, could be very different from us; so different we may not be able to imagine or comprehend how much so. They might be extremely cooperative and respectful of each other within their own species.... and at the same time have decided it is in their best interest to exterminate all sapients not of their kind. We have no way of knowing.
    I would expect them to be much different from us, and I would expect that difference to probably be much more civilized. My reasoning is that if they were advanced enough to come here, then their technology would have destroyed their civilization, had they not learned to use it wisely and judiciously. I would also expect that their mental capability has developed far beyond ours, and that their emotional capability has greatly diminished, as the strong emotional makeup that we have is one of the primary reasons we are destructive. I have no evidence, of course, but logically, that is what I would expect to see. Less "human", but in a positive way.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    It's like thinking all cats are black, because you've only ever seen one cat and it was black.
    No, it's not. Genetic variation in a species is just as presumable as intelligent life having social development.

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I would expect them to be much different from us, and I would expect that difference to probably be much more civilized. My reasoning is that if they were advanced enough to come here, then their technology would have destroyed their civilization, had they not learned to use it wisely and judiciously. I would also expect that their mental capability has developed far beyond ours, and that their emotional capability has greatly diminished, as the strong emotional makeup that we have is one of the primary reasons we are destructive. I have no evidence, of course, but logically, that is what I would expect to see. Less "human", but in a positive way.


    That is one possibility.


    Another possibility is that the alien civilization is like an intelligent insect hive... highly cooperative internally but ruthless toward any outsiders.

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    That is one possibility.


    Another possibility is that the alien civilization is like an intelligent insect hive... highly cooperative internally but ruthless toward any outsiders.
    True. I suspect it would depend greatly on the degree of diversity, and the challenges of wherever they came from. I still tend to expect they would lean more toward the peaceful end of the spectrum, though, since they had managed to survive their own advance of technology.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    True. I suspect it would depend greatly on the degree of diversity, and the challenges of wherever they came from. I still tend to expect they would lean more toward the peaceful end of the spectrum, though, since they had managed to survive their own advance of technology.

    Perhaps. My point is that we have no way of knowing just by looking at humanity; speculating based on a single example has been proven to be highly prone to error.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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