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Thread: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

  1. #111
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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Of course. There's a potential for anything. Do you honestly expect anyone to claim a speculation about aliens to be impossible?
    Great, then it's stupid to assume that aliens will be benevolent, and therefore we should be ultra-cautious. /debate

    Jesus H. Christ...

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Great, then it's stupid to assume that aliens will be benevolent, and therefore we should be ultra-cautious. /debate

    Jesus H. Christ...
    It seems you've lost track of the debate. I've bolded the part I object to below:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    We should stop looking for them because if we found them very very bad things would likely happen to us.

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    It seems you've lost track of the debate. I've bolded the part I object to below:
    So? Who here agrees that my position is more likely to preserve the existence of humanity, and that Eco's position is ****ing insane? Raise your hands.

  4. #114
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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    So? Who here agrees that my position is more likely to preserve the existence of humanity, and that Eco's position is ****ing insane? Raise your hands.
    Yes, my position is insane. That's why the world's greatest minds have decided to attempt contact. If only they heard your Chicken Little routine, surely they would change their position.

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Yes, my position is insane. That's why the world's greatest minds have decided to attempt contact. If only they heard your Chicken Little routine, surely they would change their position.
    Jesus, it's like talking to that guy who says Israel should respond to rocket attacks by doing nothing and hiding behind the Iron Dome.

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Jesus, it's like talking to that guy who says Israel should respond to rocket attacks by doing nothing and hiding behind the Iron Dome.
    "Anything can happen, so let's hide" is your position. My position is based on the same logic and reason that guides those who make these decisions.

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    So? Who here agrees that my position is more likely to preserve the existence of humanity, and that Eco's position is ****ing insane? Raise your hands.
    Hand /

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It doesn't seem likely that a civilization with a "hive mind" would engage in interstellar traveling. A civilization with hive mentalities would most likely stall at a Type I civilization (which is not enough for interstellar travel). Why do I think this? Well, let's take some examples on our own planet: Ants have remained in the same basic shape during a period where most mammals, birds, fish and dinosaurs managed to evolve into everything from pack hunters to omnivores to carnivores and went extinct. Think of it this way: In the period where some dinosaurs transitioned into birds, ants changed in minute ways. So how would this translate into a larger/more intelligent species? Pretty much the same. You'd have a civilization that is practically unchanged and so focused on the survival of the species that a sizeable risk like interstellar travel would be borderline unthinkable.

    First, you have the issue of what colonization or even attacking another civilization actually entails from a social perspective. A species that is sending out a colonizing/attacking force needs to be developed to the point where it can send a sizeable and expandable force. It needs to have resources to spare as well as well as population to spare. It would also need to have a defined social structure, system of writing and be either a type II or III civilization. It needs to have knowledge of mathematics as well as some sense of aesthetics. These are all qualities which take tens of thousands of years to develop.

    Then (for them to be of a hive mind) individuals within the society need to have developed to the point where all the things which come attached with an advanced social structure and knowledge of mathematics have been discarded/ignored or skipped altogether. So you'd have a civilization that somehow gained the mathematical knowledge as well as social development to achieve interstellar travel and then skipped/ignored/discarded aesthetics, arts, economics, philosophy and religion. Does that sound likely? That a species achieved interstellar travel but is somehow immune to all of the little nuances which have existed in every civilization we know of? Of course not. So we can immediately discard the idea that a "hive mind" species colonizing the universe is likely.

    Then, you have the "life" issue. It's pretty well established that species with any sort of intelligence tend to be restricted by finite lifetimes. Whether this is based on the observation of creatures from our planet or not, there is only so long a creature can live and/or be kept alive. Is it possible to keep a being alive for 10,000 years of interstellar travel? Doubtful. Tissue degradation, contamination, illness, ship maintenance, all would have to be taken into consideration. You'd need a small force just to keep the ships maintained for the immense amount of time it takes to get from one star to another. Then you'd need substinance and whatever gas they breathe in ample supply for that force. So just keeping a supporting cast through the trip would take immense amounts of resources.

    In conclusion, not only is a colonizing group of aliens an unlikely possibility, it seems illogical for a civilization to spend resources on a trip that may result in the decimation of a percentage of its population as well as the loss of resources. I'm looking at this from a realistic perspective, not a sci-fi perspective.

    1. I never said ants. I said insect-LIKE. Meaning highly cooperative among their own kind, but possibly having little or no empathy for those not of their kind.

    2. I am familiar with these arguments, but they are based on assumptions about things we know nothing of and can merely speculate upon. Also, the parameters for interstellar travel are not necessarily fixed by low-end assumptions such as taking 10,000 years for the journey... if that is the case we will probably never meet any aliens at all. However recent recalculations regarding the Alcubierre Drive indicate that 'FTL' may not be science fiction, but a real possibility.... just to name one factor that could change a lot of the assumptions commonly made.

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Great, then it's stupid to assume that aliens will be benevolent, and therefore we should be ultra-cautious. /debate

    Jesus H. Christ...


    Even if they were benevolent, more or less, contact with a more advanced race often tends to have a devastating effect on the lesser culture, as we've often seen here on Earth.

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  10. #120
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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Even if they were benevolent, more or less, contact with a more advanced race often tends to have a devastating effect on the lesser culture, as we've often seen here on Earth.
    The advanced status was only technological, and it was not benevolent at all.

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