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Thread: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I'm supposed to explain to you basic biology and physics? Do you have any concept of evolution, or are you a creationist/IDer?

    What you fail to understand is that you understanding science does not matter to me. Your ability to grasp concepts is not material to the debate, for those of us with sufficient education in natural science to see your ignorance.


    Obfuscate all you want. The challenge still stands.

    Why is it "impossible," biologically or by the laws of physics, for a Eusocial species to attain intelligence?

    What proof supports this assertion?

    I'm waiting...

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Obfuscate all you want.
    The bottom line is that ones fantasy of evil aliens is merely a result of disappointment in oneself. Anyone that has experienced emotional and social growth in their life is aware of society's progress within themselves. Social development over time is self evident for most people. All of history testifies to it.

    The challenge still stands.
    Explaining basic science is not a challenge. I'm not overviewing textbook chapters just because someone on an internet forum is ignorant.

    I'm waiting...
    Try holding your breath.

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    ....It's highly improbable in the limitless vastness of the universe that we humans stand alone," NASA administrator Charles Bolden said last week.

    But Ham, president and CEO of Answers in Genesis and the Creation Museum in Petersburg, Ky., said we probably are alone. He wrote "earth was specially created," and the entire hunt for extraterrestrials is "really driven by manís rebellion against God in a desperate attempt to supposedly prove evolution!"

    If aliens do exist, however, Ham said even Jesus can't save them.


    Ham does have a point...."if aliens do exist ...even Jesus can't save them."


    But what if God and Jesus are aliens? If they're not one of us then how could they not be?


    There could be aliens among us right now and we'd never know. Anyone see the movie "Under the Skin"?

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The bottom line is that ones fantasy of evil aliens is merely a result of disappointment in oneself. Anyone that has experienced emotional and social growth in their life is aware of society's progress within themselves.


    In other words, you've basically made blind faith in "society" and "social progress" into some sort of half-cocked spiritual religion for yourself.

    Good for you.

    Social development over time is self evident for most people. All of history testifies to it.
    Mmhm.



    Explaining basic science is not a challenge. I'm not overviewing textbook chapters just because someone on an internet forum is ignorant.
    In that case, I accept your concession.

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    That is one possibility.

    Another possibility is that the alien civilization is like an intelligent insect hive... highly cooperative internally but ruthless toward any outsiders.
    It doesn't seem likely that a civilization with a "hive mind" would engage in interstellar traveling. A civilization with hive mentalities would most likely stall at a Type I civilization (which is not enough for interstellar travel). Why do I think this? Well, let's take some examples on our own planet: Ants have remained in the same basic shape during a period where most mammals, birds, fish and dinosaurs managed to evolve into everything from pack hunters to omnivores to carnivores and went extinct. Think of it this way: In the period where some dinosaurs transitioned into birds, ants changed in minute ways. So how would this translate into a larger/more intelligent species? Pretty much the same. You'd have a civilization that is practically unchanged and so focused on the survival of the species that a sizeable risk like interstellar travel would be borderline unthinkable.

    First, you have the issue of what colonization or even attacking another civilization actually entails from a social perspective. A species that is sending out a colonizing/attacking force needs to be developed to the point where it can send a sizeable and expandable force. It needs to have resources to spare as well as well as population to spare. It would also need to have a defined social structure, system of writing and be either a type II or III civilization. It needs to have knowledge of mathematics as well as some sense of aesthetics. These are all qualities which take tens of thousands of years to develop.

    Then (for them to be of a hive mind) individuals within the society need to have developed to the point where all the things which come attached with an advanced social structure and knowledge of mathematics have been discarded/ignored or skipped altogether. So you'd have a civilization that somehow gained the mathematical knowledge as well as social development to achieve interstellar travel and then skipped/ignored/discarded aesthetics, arts, economics, philosophy and religion. Does that sound likely? That a species achieved interstellar travel but is somehow immune to all of the little nuances which have existed in every civilization we know of? Of course not. So we can immediately discard the idea that a "hive mind" species colonizing the universe is likely.

    Then, you have the "life" issue. It's pretty well established that species with any sort of intelligence tend to be restricted by finite lifetimes. Whether this is based on the observation of creatures from our planet or not, there is only so long a creature can live and/or be kept alive. Is it possible to keep a being alive for 10,000 years of interstellar travel? Doubtful. Tissue degradation, contamination, illness, ship maintenance, all would have to be taken into consideration. You'd need a small force just to keep the ships maintained for the immense amount of time it takes to get from one star to another. Then you'd need substinance and whatever gas they breathe in ample supply for that force. So just keeping a supporting cast through the trip would take immense amounts of resources.

    In conclusion, not only is a colonizing group of aliens an unlikely possibility, it seems illogical for a civilization to spend resources on a trip that may result in the decimation of a percentage of its population as well as the loss of resources. I'm looking at this from a realistic perspective, not a sci-fi perspective.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 08-01-14 at 05:40 AM.
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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Nothing better than to stop looking outside for other intelligent life then agreeing that they all go to hell. Yes, stop looking for other evidence that works against religious, and focus nowhere else except dogma and group think. Lets stop, or better, turn back clock and stick to the medieval ages!
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them



    I figured we could all appreciate some humor this morning (even though this guy seems serious)

    His original blog: http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/bl...thin-20-years/
    Seems like an easy way to win the war of the worlds.

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I'm not an optimist. I'm basing my assessment on reality, while you are basing your assessment on nothing. I'm a realist (making assessments based upon actual evidence) and
    you're just making up fantasy.


    All the evidence is on my side. Making up labels for me is not going to change that. Spew your fantasy all you want, but know that it's counter to all evidence.

    Pretending that your assessment is equal to mine is intellectually dishonest. Concede the debate, join us in reality. Give up the Chicken Little costume, enough scaring ignorant children.



    Great fantasy requires great minds, eh?

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Great fantasy requires great minds, eh?
    Cardinal is pretty sharp, he just finds the "killer aliens!!11!!" thing amusing. He's surely capable of understanding one position having all of the evidence, logic and reason, and the other being pure fantasy. And he understands the value of evidence (however incomplete) over pure speculation.

    Gath? *snicker*

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    Re: Creationist Ken Ham Says Aliens Will Go To Hell So Let's Stop Looking For Them

    Once the predator-type aliens get around to us we probably won't be discussing the results on this forum, eh?

    That's, of course, if they exist.

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