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Thread: Social Security To Go Bust By 2030: CBO

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    Re: Social Security To Go Bust By 2030: CBO

    Quote Originally Posted by KokomoJojo View Post
    anyone approaching 80 with sound mind will tell you that the government sold it to the people as an "insurance policy", despite when you read the actual legalese it is nothing of the sort.
    someone warned us to be vigilent in the defense of social security.

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    Re: Social Security To Go Bust By 2030: CBO

    Quote Originally Posted by KokomoJojo View Post
    a balanced economic system.

    the present system did not get rid of deflation.

    it did help to maintain liquidity but in the worst possibly way for "the people" meanwhile the banking cartels make huge profits in either direction.
    Thank you for not answering the question. Now you say the present system did not get rid of deflation, yet before you were bitching about inflation. I give up.
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    Re: Social Security To Go Bust By 2030: CBO

    Quote Originally Posted by KokomoJojo View Post
    anyone approaching 80 with sound mind will tell you that the government sold it to the people as an "insurance policy", despite when you read the actual legalese it is nothing of the sort.
    Social security is a good system. The problem is there is a vested interest with some to privatize it. They want to privatize all our social programs because there is money to be made from them. They want to try and destroy the program first and then educate the public on why we need to have our own individual accounts. It doesn't matter that Latin America has been the testing ground for such neoliberal policies for a few decades now with dismal results for the citizens..... not dismal results for making money off their backs.
    Last edited by rabbitcaebannog; 07-20-14 at 11:06 AM.

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    Re: Social Security To Go Bust By 2030: CBO

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    This demonstrates these people are not wanting to do what is in the best interest of themselves. Personal accounts in other countries have not shown to do well. Also, why should seniors deserve a benefit cut? Not only did those people 20 years ago pay into the system for others (current retirees) but also were told they were paying toward a savings for themselves. Are you suggesting that was a lie by Reagan and Greenspan?
    You will have to show me what Reagan and Greenspan said before I can tell you whether it was a lie. A lot of people seem to think that increasing payroll taxes pre-paid their benefits. Based on the data today, those people are foolishly mistaken. I cannot tell you that Reagan and Greenspan lied because I never heard either of them make such a promise.

    The Boomer who say that the Social Security system was projected to be solvent until they were gone. This is what I will say. So it was your understanding that you could screwover your children, and now you are disappointed that it fell on you?

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    Re: Social Security To Go Bust By 2030: CBO

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Social security is a good system. The problem is there is a vested interest with some to privatize it. They want to privatize all our social programs because there is money to be made from them. They want to try and destroy the program first and then educate the public on why we need to have our own individual accounts. It doesn't matter that Latin America has been the testing ground for such neoliberal policies for a few decades now with dismal results for the citizens..... not dismal results for making money off their backs.
    Some of this borders on crazytown. Social Security has a negative net worth of $23 trillion - where is the vested interest in privatizing a negative number. Specifically, where in Latin America has private accounts failed?

    Privatization is largely a strawman created by America's left because they cannot articulate a mission which Social Security can serve. Privatization has little political resonance these days. My guess is that many of those younger Americans polled do not know that 'reduce' really means 'eliminate'. I have talked to hundreds of supporters, and virtually none want a private account. They simply want out. CPWill here is one exception. I have tried to dispel the belief that privatization makes Social Security more financially stable : The Risks of Privatizing Social Security : FedSmith.com

    Just historical fact, Social Security had little resistance in DC until the 1990s ( which exactly coincided with the introduction of peak-rates). At that time, people started talking about privatizing the system. In 2005, GWB put forward a proposal which could not get out of a GOP controlled committee. Ryan put forward a concept called the Roadmap For America, which included private accounts in SS. The parts about privatizing Social Security were removed before Ryan proposed it as law. So there is very little evidence that anyone is doing anything about Social Security at all.

    Charles Blahous, Public Trustee Of The Social Security Trust Funds, "If this all happens, and renders tomorrow’s Social Security benefits less secure than today’s, it would be a tragic irony: the outcome would have been brought about largely by supporters of Social Security having countenanced the tactics of delay to the point that the program’s unique political protections could no longer be preserved. Those who care about the Social Security program need to clearly understand the consequence of this ongoing neglect; that time for a realistic financing solution has nearly run out." He is talking about people such as yourself.



    Is it Becoming Too Late to Fix Social Security's Finances? | e21 - Economic Policies for the 21st Century

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    Re: Social Security To Go Bust By 2030: CBO

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    someone warned us to be vigilent in the defense of social security.

    Which is why FDR veto'd changes to the system in 1940s. What we have today is exactly what FDR fought against. So let's not bring-out videos of FDR as though they support any case about Social Security today. If you want to be vigilant, you are going to have to hop into the car for a ride with Marty McFly

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    Re: Social Security To Go Bust By 2030: CBO

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    It doesn't matter when the bonds get all cashed in. SS will then run a deficit. The government will have to come up with the extra from tax payers.
    This is factually incorrect. When the bonds, or IOUs, get cashed in, SS benefits will be cut because SS cannot run a deficit. Do you need a link to the Trustees Report for a discussion about benefit cuts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post

    I don't like it, but it's the reality.

    The left always fights the option to allow people to put their SS deduction into personal accounts instead, so don't look at me.
    Here is my article on the reality of personal accounts, The Risks of Privatizing Social Security : FedSmith.com . Long story short the nation can't afford them. The problem is that when money is diverted from SS to personal accounts it creates a bigger draw on the Trust Funds to cover existing benefits. So benefit cuts are moved forward in time.

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    Re: Social Security To Go Bust By 2030: CBO

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTheEconomist View Post
    This is factually incorrect. When the bonds, or IOUs, get cashed in, SS benefits will be cut because SS cannot run a deficit. Do you need a link to the Trustees Report for a discussion about benefit cuts?
    Assuming I am incorrect, there are other options besides cutting benefits. One would to be raise SS rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTheEconomist View Post
    Here is my article on the reality of personal accounts, The Risks of Privatizing Social Security : FedSmith.com . Long story short the nation can't afford them. The problem is that when money is diverted from SS to personal accounts it creates a bigger draw on the Trust Funds to cover existing benefits. So benefit cuts are moved forward in time.
    One thought to consider.

    Why not allow people who want to take part of the SS money and place it into a personal account? It seems to me that those of us who can afford to build such an account up live longer because of our finances as well. Am I wrong about that? When we collect SS, it's often into our 80's or longer, whereas poorer people, without the same level of medical care, simply don't live as long.

    Am I wrong about that?

    I wonder if there have been any studies regarding income vs. longevity vs. drain on SS.

    Your wording sounds like you wrote the article. If that's true, maybe you have the data resources to test this idea?

    I knew I would have a good work outlook since the 80's. I would have gladly, then, taken reduced or no SS for the ability to put part or some of that money into a personal retirement account.

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    Re: Social Security To Go Bust By 2030: CBO

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Assuming I am incorrect, there are other options besides cutting benefits. One would to be raise SS rates.
    Rates might get raised, but you have to ask why will future voters increase taxes when we wont. It is a difficult sell to someone like me with kids. You are telling me that we are going to throw more money at a system that is completely broken. Today workers even if they get benefits in the future will lose money on the system. So you are suggesting that we increase the price of something that loses money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    One thought to consider.

    Why not allow people who want to take part of the SS money and place it into a personal account? It seems to me that those of us who can afford to build such an account up live longer because of our finances as well. Am I wrong about that? When we collect SS, it's often into our 80's or longer, whereas poorer people, without the same level of medical care, simply don't live as long.

    Am I wrong about that?
    It is a question that I posed to SSA. If you look at the moneys-worth studies, it tells you that low-wage workers get a better deal from Social Security. So I asked SSA whether the life expectancy used in the study tracked to past wages. They said that it didn't, but shorter life expectancies tend to have higher disability utilization. The email said that the increase is about 2 years and it wouldn't materially affect the outcome of the results. Understand, I am not a Congressman and the email may have been a way to get rid of my question. I really don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    I wonder if there have been any studies regarding income vs. longevity vs. drain on SS.
    There are two studies that are generally used. The moneys-worth studies from the SSA and the data from the Urban Institute. I think that the UI data is more widely used because it written in terms that is more easily understood. What you will find is that retirees from the 1940s into the 1990s completely mugged the system. They contributed little, and Congress rewarded them with substantial increases. Social Security was basically a campaign reelection fund which gave voters benefits at the expense of non-voters. The turn year is 2010, which is 1945 birth years. That was the last year in which a retiree expected to make money on Social Security. It is downhill there after.

    The math isn't difficult to understand. Social Security is a paygo system, which does not generate income with which to pay profits to retirees. Retirees into the 1970s made a killing in profits. Those profits have to come from somewhere. The only place that profits can be created in a paygo system is based on reduced returns to future retirees. This consequence was explained to Congress in 1944 by the man who ran SS at the time.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post

    Your wording sounds like you wrote the article. If that's true, maybe you have the data resources to test this idea?

    I knew I would have a good work outlook since the 80's. I would have gladly, then, taken reduced or no SS for the ability to put part or some of that money into a personal retirement account.
    I wrote the article. The process is simple. If you divert resources from SS to a private account, the system will have to take more cushion from the Trust Fund. The Trust Fund will be liquidated sooner, and benefits will be cut sooner. What data source do you need?

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    Re: Social Security To Go Bust By 2030: CBO

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTheEconomist View Post
    Some of this borders on crazytown. Social Security has a negative net worth of $23 trillion - where is the vested interest in privatizing a negative number. Specifically, where in Latin America has private accounts failed?

    Privatization is largely a strawman created by America's left because they cannot articulate a mission which Social Security can serve. Privatization has little political resonance these days. My guess is that many of those younger Americans polled do not know that 'reduce' really means 'eliminate'. I have talked to hundreds of supporters, and virtually none want a private account. They simply want out. CPWill here is one exception. I have tried to dispel the belief that privatization makes Social Security more financially stable : The Risks of Privatizing Social Security : FedSmith.com

    Just historical fact, Social Security had little resistance in DC until the 1990s ( which exactly coincided with the introduction of peak-rates). At that time, people started talking about privatizing the system. In 2005, GWB put forward a proposal which could not get out of a GOP controlled committee. Ryan put forward a concept called the Roadmap For America, which included private accounts in SS. The parts about privatizing Social Security were removed before Ryan proposed it as law. So there is very little evidence that anyone is doing anything about Social Security at all.

    Charles Blahous, Public Trustee Of The Social Security Trust Funds, "If this all happens, and renders tomorrow’s Social Security benefits less secure than today’s, it would be a tragic irony: the outcome would have been brought about largely by supporters of Social Security having countenanced the tactics of delay to the point that the program’s unique political protections could no longer be preserved. Those who care about the Social Security program need to clearly understand the consequence of this ongoing neglect; that time for a realistic financing solution has nearly run out." He is talking about people such as yourself.



    Is it Becoming Too Late to Fix Social Security's Finances? | e21 - Economic Policies for the 21st Century
    It's ironic you even mention Blahous' name in the privatization discussion. After all, he was Bush's point man when he brought forth the subject to privatizing the system. He is an ideologue who works for the Hoover Institute. Many of these same privatized schemes came from these US conservative/libertarian think tanks that changed the social security programs in Latin America. Such a surprise you know little about this since the Cato Institute and Heritage Foundation are still pushing private accounts. The people who fund them have a vested interest in private accounts. It's not just poster such as CPwill that believe in them. But, your point is correct that the American people for the most part aren't buying into them. I suppose it could be re-packaged into another name. Time will tell.

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