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Thread: House GOP votes to gut IRS budget

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    Re: House GOP votes to gut IRS budget

    when you take all the credits away, you are left just with income

    have maybe 5 tiers

    0-50k 5%
    50,001-100k 12%
    100001-300k 22%
    300001-1.5 mill 27%
    1.5m + 33%

    all income counts

    i would like to be able to not count a few types of income, but then when you add one, someone else feels left out

    what i would like to leave out

    social security payments
    insurance proceeds from a death benefit (doesnt count as income now)

    i am sure i am missing a few things....but that is how simple it should be
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    Re: House GOP votes to gut IRS budget

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    Apparently not. The size of government is the problem.
    Could you please then identify the proper size?
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    Re: House GOP votes to gut IRS budget

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I agree there are a lot of reasons why an individual may be in arrears on their taxes. However, if you work for the federal government and particularly if you work for the IRS, there seems to me to be very few legitimate reasons why you would be. In addition, as your employer, the IRS has a pretty easy way of getting at your salary if you don't pay. As for it being a crime, I'd be strictly referring to anyone employed by the government who did not file a tax return - there's no excuse for that.
    I agree with all that. The only point is there are better and worse reasons for anyone to be in tax trouble, and the kind of summaries like we see here can't provide any kind of actual view of which are going on with the IRS employees, or employees of all the other agencies that are delinquent on their taxes. But IRS employees should absolutely be held to a very, very high standard in my view.

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    Re: House GOP votes to gut IRS budget

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    when you take all the credits away, you are left just with income
    I'll just say that a lot of the complexity in the IRC is caused by the fact that life, and especially business, is complex. It might sound simple, but "income" is tough to measure. And there is a lot of complexity in there as a gateway to tax avoidance for favored industries, but just as much to close loopholes for smart companies who take simple rules, twist them into something unrecognizable, and on the other side you've turned an economic gain into a huge taxable loss.

    Point is, yes, we could vastly simplify the IRC and make tax compliance easier, but it's a LOT easier said than done, and can't be done without trade-offs elsewhere. It's funny - every time tax reform comes up someone will say CPAs must oppose it because it will eliminate the need for them!! OH NOOO!! I can promise, no one in tax is worried about Congress making things simple enough to threaten anyone's job as a tax professional.

    What would help, and eliminate some jobs at H&R Block and the like, is for IRS to pre-prepare returns and send them out for signature. For some large majority of us, all the information on the return is reported to IRS on 1099s and 1098s, W-2s, etc. and IRS could do a perfect return quite easily and all individuals need do is, if they don't itemize, sign and send in with a check, and for those that do itemize, add charity, maybe some taxes, and send that in. Of course the tax prep lobbies have spent massive sums on lobbying and defeated those proposals.... Got to get their pound of flesh out of working people to prepare the simplest returns.

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    Re: House GOP votes to gut IRS budget

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'll just say that a lot of the complexity in the IRC is caused by the fact that life, and especially business, is complex. It might sound simple, but "income" is tough to measure. And there is a lot of complexity in there as a gateway to tax avoidance for favored industries, but just as much to close loopholes for smart companies who take simple rules, twist them into something unrecognizable, and on the other side you've turned an economic gain into a huge taxable loss.

    Point is, yes, we could vastly simplify the IRC and make tax compliance easier, but it's a LOT easier said than done, and can't be done without trade-offs elsewhere. It's funny - every time tax reform comes up someone will say CPAs must oppose it because it will eliminate the need for them!! OH NOOO!! I can promise, no one in tax is worried about Congress making things simple enough to threaten anyone's job as a tax professional.

    What would help, and eliminate some jobs at H&R Block and the like, is for IRS to pre-prepare returns and send them out for signature. For some large majority of us, all the information on the return is reported to IRS on 1099s and 1098s, W-2s, etc. and IRS could do a perfect return quite easily and all individuals need do is, if they don't itemize, sign and send in with a check, and for those that do itemize, add charity, maybe some taxes, and send that in. Of course the tax prep lobbies have spent massive sums on lobbying and defeated those proposals.... Got to get their pound of flesh out of working people to prepare the simplest returns.

    i have been the lead accountant for c corps, s corps, llcs, limited partnerships, etc

    now...i grant you, all in the same basic business

    figuring out the income of a "company" is fairly easy (at least it has been in my experience)

    corp taxes will always be more complex than than individuals return

    but both sides can and should be simplified

    i swear every year, the cpa firm and myself spend countless hours trying to make sure we understand the freaking rules, trying to make sure we dont have any glaring mistakes

    we dont even try to explain things to the owner anymore....we just tell him how big of a check he has to write

    that seems wrong in so many ways.....yes, he trusts me implicitly....and he knows we try to get everything right

    but shouldnt the rules be easy and simple enough for the owner of a 100 million dollar company to at least understand why he owes over 7 figures to the irs?
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

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    Re: House GOP votes to gut IRS budget

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    i have been the lead accountant for c corps, s corps, llcs, limited partnerships, etc

    now...i grant you, all in the same basic business

    figuring out the income of a "company" is fairly easy (at least it has been in my experience)

    corp taxes will always be more complex than than individuals return

    but both sides can and should be simplified

    i swear every year, the cpa firm and myself spend countless hours trying to make sure we understand the freaking rules, trying to make sure we dont have any glaring mistakes

    we dont even try to explain things to the owner anymore....we just tell him how big of a check he has to write

    that seems wrong in so many ways.....yes, he trusts me implicitly....and he knows we try to get everything right

    but shouldnt the rules be easy and simple enough for the owner of a 100 million dollar company to at least understand why he owes over 7 figures to the irs?
    Like I said, simplification is possible. I just don't think that as a practical matter we will ever see a "simple" tax system. Not unless we go to something like gross receipts taxes or VATs or something like that, where the concept of taxable 'income' is no longer relevant.

    And based on the proposals I've seen, simplification for some reason always eliminates deductions for the middle class and above, mostly, perhaps eliminates credits for the poor, and SURPRISE!! provides a lower top rate for the top slivers who don't care about a measly deduction for mortgage interest - they just want their $2 million salary and bonus at a lower rate and tax 'reform' gives them that!

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    Re: House GOP votes to gut IRS budget

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You need to cool it with the false meme. That's been debunked for months. There is no doubt the scandal is real at this point.
    So why the GOP hiding behind a voice vote?

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    Re: House GOP votes to gut IRS budget

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Are you serious? The IRS is obviously too corrupt to wield the power that it does.
    They need to literally fix the government's budget, or the IRS will just be understaffed and bigger assholes looking to tax and penalize everybody.

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    Re: House GOP votes to gut IRS budget

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So the forces of the right cut the ability of the government to collect tax revenues and then they will complain about the governments budget at the same time after undertaking this very action which will contribute to the problem.

    Got it loud and clear.
    They're not cutting specific portions of the IRS budget. The IRS can indeed use whatever portion of their budget they need to enforce tax law.

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    Re: House GOP votes to gut IRS budget

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Could you please then identify the proper size?
    Yes, 50% smaller than the federal government thinks it needs to be.

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