Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contempt"

GOP Congressman: ‘We Just Filed a Resolution Directing the Sergeant-at-Arms to Arrest Lois Lerner for Contempt’ | TheBlaze.com


"Rep. Steve Stockman (R-Texas) announced on Thursday that he has filed a resolution directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “arrest Lois Lerner for contempt of Congress” over the IRS targeting scandal.

Stockman said in a statement that asking the U.S. Department of Justice to prosecute Lerner for “admittedly illegal activity” is a “joke.” Instead, the Republican said it is up to the U.S. House to “uphold the rule of law and hold accountable those who illegally targeted American citizens for simply having different ideas than the President.”

Under the proposed resolution, Lerner would be held in a Washington, D.C., jail and would be given access to an attorney and all her constitutional rights."

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

Hmm....shouldn't they hold the dictator responsible for not enforcing the law?

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

It looks to me like we've sent in the clowns

Don't you love farce? My fault I hear
I thought that you'd want what I want
Sorry my dear but where are the clowns?
There ought to be clowns, quick send in the clowns

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Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

Dittohead not! said:

It looks to me like we've sent in the clowns

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Maybe, and I can sure see your point. However, they do have the ability to do this, but I seriously think it'll never happen, and I truly hope it doesn't because it will not look good and get ridiculed in the press and the left will jump all over it.

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

Fenton said:

GOP Congressman: ‘We Just Filed a Resolution Directing the Sergeant-at-Arms to Arrest Lois Lerner for Contempt’ | TheBlaze.com


"Rep. Steve Stockman (R-Texas) announced on Thursday that he has filed a resolution directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “arrest Lois Lerner for contempt of Congress” over the IRS targeting scandal.

Stockman said in a statement that asking the U.S. Department of Justice to prosecute Lerner for “admittedly illegal activity” is a “joke.” Instead, the Republican said it is up to the U.S. House to “uphold the rule of law and hold accountable those who illegally targeted American citizens for simply having different ideas than the President.”

Under the proposed resolution, Lerner would be held in a Washington, D.C., jail and would be given access to an attorney and all her constitutional rights."

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If she can be shown to have misused the IRS, she should go to jail.

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

Representative Stockman should look up how contempt actually works before making such absurd demands. Contempt is absolutely not a means to circumvent the fifth amendment.

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

Paschendale said:

Representative Stockman should look up how contempt actually works before making such absurd demands. Contempt is absolutely not a means to circumvent the fifth amendment.

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Yes but the fifth amendment does not give you the right to remain silent by refusing to answer questions and then give a statement regarding your side of the story, which is exactly what Lois Lerner did when she went before Congress.

When you assert the fifth amendment all you say is "I am asserting my fifth amendment right," or you have your lawyer say this on your behalf then you keep your mouth shut and say nothing else. That''s how the fifth amendment works. Many legal experts have stated that by speaking after asserting her fifth amendment right Lerner waived that right and there is legitimate cause to be held in contempt.

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

DB20 said:

Many legal experts have stated that by speaking after asserting her fifth amendment right Lerner waived that right and there is legitimate cause to be held in contempt.

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And until that is decided, this is going to go nowhere. How about they actually get a ruling on THAT part, before the Republicans look even more silly with this "arresting" business.

It's clear there hasn't been a consensus on whether she actually waived her 5th amendment rights because there are "legal experts" that have said she hasn't waived them and there are those that have said she has. Without that being decided by courts, the GOP are just spinning their wheels.

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

TheNextEra said:

And until that is decided, this is going to go nowhere. How about they actually get a ruling on THAT part, before the Republicans look even more silly with this "arresting" business.

It's clear there hasn't been a consensus on whether she actually waived her 5th amendment rights because there are "legal experts" that have said she hasn't waived them and there are those that have said she has. Without that being decided by courts, the GOP are just spinning their wheels.

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I think there are far more Americans that think the IRS looks guilty than think the GOP looks silly.

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

DB20 said:

I think there are far more Americans that think the IRS looks guilty than think the GOP looks silly.

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Good thing that what you "think" doesn't matter. You can "think" what you want all day long, that doesn't make it fact.

It is in fact silly to talk about arresting someone when they can't even get a consensus on if she CAN be arrested because they haven't got a ruling if she was in contempt. This could very much backfire on the GOP especially with elections upcoming. If its found out she wasn't in contempt, the GOP are going to look pretty stupid.

This is why I keep saying that the GOP has a bad habit of snatching defeat from victory. If the GOP were smart, they would first get an official ruling on whether she was in contempt or not and THEN proceed with what they planned.

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

While I think that Lerner should be in jail right now, I think that an order to the Sergeant at Arms to arrest is ridiculous.

We need a Special Prosecutor on this matter.

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

DB20 said:

I think there are far more Americans that think the IRS looks guilty than think the GOP looks silly.

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What about those of us who think that the IRS, or at least some of its employees, look guilty, and the GOP looks silly?

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

Dittohead not! said:

What about those of us who think that the IRS, or at least some of its employees, look guilty, and the GOP looks silly?

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Sure there are people that will agree to that.

But I'm not one of them.

Whats the House, who's responsible for oversight supposed to do in this situation ?

Holder WON'T call for a Special prosecutor.

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

Fenton said:

Sure there are people that will agree to that.

But I'm not one of them.

Whats the House, who's responsible for oversight supposed to do in this situation ?

Holder WON'T call for a Special prosecutor.

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What they're supposed to do must be what they've been doing, make an opportunity for political grandstanding.

Or, they could call someone else to testify, since Lerner still does have fifth amendment rights.

Or, perhaps they could continue to tear down the fifth amendment, along with the second, the fourth, the tenth, and other amendments that they don't like.

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

Dittohead not! said:

What they're supposed to do must be what they've been doing, make an opportunity for political grandstanding.

Or, they could call someone else to testify, since Lerner still does have fifth amendment rights.

Or, perhaps they could continue to tear down the fifth amendment, along with the second, the fourth, the tenth, and other amendments that they don't like.

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Lol !!
You seem so concerned about the Constitution all of the sudden.

Does you concern extend out to the victims of the IRSs admitted targeting ?

Or just to democrats ?

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

TheNextEra said:

And until that is decided, this is going to go nowhere. How about they actually get a ruling on THAT part, before the Republicans look even more silly with this "arresting" business.

It's clear there hasn't been a consensus on whether she actually waived her 5th amendment rights because there are "legal experts" that have said she hasn't waived them and there are those that have said she has. Without that being decided by courts, the GOP are just spinning their wheels.

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I would like to hear how you propose they "Get a ruling on that"?

The reason I ask is that I don't see how a ruling could happen unless someone (I propose Lerner) is arrested for contempt despite the fact that they have asserted their 5th amendment rights. Then a judge will have the opportunity to rule. Otherwise, the opportunity to rule on it never arises. This is the way American law seems to work. You don't get rulings on things until they are attempted, generally speaking. So, I was just wondering if you had an alternate scenario within American law that could somehow be followed to obtain that ruling before she is arrested.

She can take the 5th in order to avoid incriminating herself, but she doesn't get to take it to avoid Republican partisan attacks. Consistently, that is the excuse my fellow liberals have cited for her taking the 5th. It doesn't work that way, and it is a ridiculous partisan fall back position. We must assume she took it because she has something criminal to hide, and we must pursue that fact aggressively. We don't reduce our effort when someone takes the 5th, we intensify it. I say this as a Democrat and liberal who nevertheless believes criminal use of executive power is one of the worst affronts to democracy, and should be investigated vigorously.

I do believe the logic of their effort to arrest her is on shaky legal ground, but I do like the principle of it. Either be silent or talk, but don't think you can have your cake and eat it too. It should be pursued.

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

Fenton said:

GOP Congressman: ‘We Just Filed a Resolution Directing the Sergeant-at-Arms to Arrest Lois Lerner for Contempt’ | TheBlaze.com


"Rep. Steve Stockman (R-Texas) announced on Thursday that he has filed a resolution directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “arrest Lois Lerner for contempt of Congress” over the IRS targeting scandal.

Stockman said in a statement that asking the U.S. Department of Justice to prosecute Lerner for “admittedly illegal activity” is a “joke.” Instead, the Republican said it is up to the U.S. House to “uphold the rule of law and hold accountable those who illegally targeted American citizens for simply having different ideas than the President.”

Under the proposed resolution, Lerner would be held in a Washington, D.C., jail and would be given access to an attorney and all her constitutional rights."

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That sounds right and is over due.

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

Fenton said:

Lol !!
You seem so concerned about the Constitution all of the sudden.

Does you concern extend out to the victims of the IRSs admitted targeting ?

Or just to democrats ?

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Nothing sudden about it. I've been ranting about the Constitution being trampled ever since I joined the forum.

And yes, of course it extends to any "victims" of IRS targeting.

It just doesn't extend to members of Congress who are more interested in partisan grandstanding than in taking care of the nation's business.

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

If nothing else, she certainly is contemptible.

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

Paschendale said:

Representative Stockman should look up how contempt actually works before making such absurd demands. Contempt is absolutely not a means to circumvent the fifth amendment.

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Maybe you should look up how it works.

Most contempt citations arise from Congress's investigatory powers. In its decisions since World War II, the Supreme Court has outlined requirements that Congress must meet before it can compel testimony. The investigation must have a valid legislative purpose. It must be conducted by a committee or subcommittee of the House of Representatives or Senate, or the authority of the investigating body must be clearly defined in a resolution. The questions asked of witnesses must be pertinent to the subject of inquiry. Contempt proceedings cannot be used to harass an individual or organization. Finally, before individuals can be held in contempt, they must willfully default, either by failing to appear before the investigating body or by refusing to answer pertinent questions.

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contempt legal definition of contempt

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

I'm no formally trained lawyer, but it strikes me as really odd that she hasn't been charged, and indicted yet? There is enough evidence, circumstantial and admitted for a grand-jury to indict Lerner now. I've seen a lot more people with a lot let evidence get indicted by Grand Juries. Of course we need Holder to actually send it to the grand jury, but something even more troublesome comes from this. Why Holder hasn't done this yet or why he isn't really investigating this is as damaging to the Admin and points to having their hands in this as much as Lerners guilt by taking the 5th. No remotely competent DOJ would have taken this long with this much evidence in their baskets to prosecute and jail anyone responsible for this crime.

Their inaction points to complicity, and if Obama wasn't such a well-documented liar, and deceiver, I'd give him the benefit of doubt, but I don't trust this guy and his minions as far as I can throw them. HE said he would aggressively investigate this matter. HE said it for all to hear, yet we see no action from his DOJ, no FBI intervention it seems by all witness accounts, and we have stonewalling and outright purging of evidence. If this White House isn't involved I'd be really, really shocked to be honest.

I say, if the next President is Republican, they should buck the trend of not going after previous administrations, and they should take this one, along with Bengahzi, along with NSA, along with EPA, along with Bergdahl, and really open up the books to the American people. If Obama won't be transparent, then the next President should be, and send a message to future Presidents that your little President club's secrets aren't safe, especially when criminal in nature!


Tim-

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

The only reason the real evidence of what Lerner and her scumbag cohorts at the IRS did hasn't been found yet is because great lengths have been taken to ensure that it will never be found.

The government (both parties) the banks, the wealthy....it's one big f-ing country club and the middle class need not apply. They're screwing us and there's not a damn thing we can do about it. So I, like many other Americans will cheer any attempt, no matter how ill advised or foolish to hold one of these SOB's accountable. I don't want Lois Lerner to go to jail. I want her to go to hell and I want to watch her burn.

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

DB20 said:

Yes but the fifth amendment does not give you the right to remain silent by refusing to answer questions and then give a statement regarding your side of the story, which is exactly what Lois Lerner did when she went before Congress.

When you assert the fifth amendment all you say is "I am asserting my fifth amendment right," or you have your lawyer say this on your behalf then you keep your mouth shut and say nothing else. That''s how the fifth amendment works. Many legal experts have stated that by speaking after asserting her fifth amendment right Lerner waived that right and there is legitimate cause to be held in contempt.

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And many more legal experts would say that's complete nonsense. What someone does outside of a trial or hearing has no bearing on their rights inside the trial or hearing. The fifth amendment does not require you to say nothing ever on a subject. It protects you from being compelled to give testimony against yourself. It very much does give you the right to remain silent by refusing to answer questions and then give whatever statements you like to whomever you like. If it's not properly introduced and subject to cross examination, I can't imagine it holding any sway in any proceeding. In a proper courtroom, as opposed to congress, the statement would be very hard to get in anyway, but it wouldn't negate fifth amendment rights.

Hicup said:

I'm no formally trained lawyer, but it strikes me as really odd that she hasn't been charged, and indicted yet?

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I am. If you were, it wouldn't strike you that way.

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

Dezaad said:

I would like to hear how you propose they "Get a ruling on that"?

The reason I ask is that I don't see how a ruling could happen unless someone (I propose Lerner) is arrested for contempt despite the fact that they have asserted their 5th amendment rights. Then a judge will have the opportunity to rule. Otherwise, the opportunity to rule on it never arises. This is the way American law seems to work. You don't get rulings on things until they are attempted, generally speaking. So, I was just wondering if you had an alternate scenario within American law that could somehow be followed to obtain that ruling before she is arrested.

She can take the 5th in order to avoid incriminating herself, but she doesn't get to take it to avoid Republican partisan attacks. Consistently, that is the excuse my fellow liberals have cited for her taking the 5th. It doesn't work that way, and it is a ridiculous partisan fall back position. We must assume she took it because she has something criminal to hide, and we must pursue that fact aggressively. We don't reduce our effort when someone takes the 5th, we intensify it. I say this as a Democrat and liberal who nevertheless believes criminal use of executive power is one of the worst affronts to democracy, and should be investigated vigorously.

I do believe the logic of their effort to arrest her is on shaky legal ground, but I do like the principle of it. Either be silent or talk, but don't think you can have your cake and eat it too. It should be pursued.

Click to expand...

great post!

Re: Resolution Directing the House sergeant-at-arms to “Arrest Lois Lerner for Contem

Paschendale said:

Representative Stockman should look up how contempt actually works before making such absurd demands. Contempt is absolutely not a means to circumvent the fifth amendment.

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If you testify before congress and they don't like what they hear the body my indeed hold you in contempt.