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Thread: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    This text talks about placement of unaccompanied alien children
    It does. As I stated, if they are being placed with LEGAL family members here then I have no issue with it in terms of a legal sense (I may have issues with the law, but the law is the law as it stands). They should not be placed with ILLEGAL family members in this country, as that a safe and secure placement. If there is no legal family here, it would seem to be the government needs to take steps to figure out what the next "least restrictive setting" is. It seems, in the law it referenecs, a "detention facility" is allowed but a "secure facility" is not based on this law. Unfortunately, this does not define what a "Secure facility" is. Is it anywhere that is guarded and a child can not leave unaccompanied, or is it a facility where children are secured in specific areas ala a jail? There is no real indication per the law.

    Fair enough, but I'm not sure that the family members they are being placed with are here illegally. I did not notice anything in the text that speaks to that issue.
    I honestly don't know. I'll look back through the original story again and try to do some research. I find it hard to imagine there are "290,000" illegal alien children that came across, and got caught, that all had legal immigrant families here as I would imagine such a situation ... based on how "dire" we are told the situation is that caused these kids to supposedly come here ... would've had the family already taken steps to get them here in a safe and legal fashion as opposed to just letting them cross the border themselves and fend for themselves until picked up by CBP.

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    And if they don't, they shouldn't.
    If they don't they should be deported. I think that's the plan, but you've at least got to hear them out first.


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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    It does. As I stated, if they are being placed with LEGAL family members here then I have no issue with it in terms of a legal sense (I may have issues with the law, but the law is the law as it stands). They should not be placed with ILLEGAL family members in this country, as that a safe and secure placement. If there is no legal family here, it would seem to be the government needs to take steps to figure out what the next "least restrictive setting" is. It seems, in the law it referenecs, a "detention facility" is allowed but a "secure facility" is not based on this law. Unfortunately, this does not define what a "Secure facility" is. Is it anywhere that is guarded and a child can not leave unaccompanied, or is it a facility where children are secured in specific areas ala a jail? There is no real indication per the law.
    I am also unsure of the difference, if any, between detention and placement in a secure facility. However, the law does mention this
    Placement of child trafficking victims may include placement in an Unaccompanied Refugee Minor program, pursuant to section 412(d) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1522(d)), if a suitable family member is not available to provide care.
    I have no knowledge of the specifics on the Unaccompanied Refugee Minor program.



    I honestly don't know. I'll look back through the original story again and try to do some research. I find it hard to imagine there are "290,000" illegal alien children that came across, and got caught, that all had legal immigrant families here as I would imagine such a situation ... based on how "dire" we are told the situation is that caused these kids to supposedly come here ... would've had the family already taken steps to get them here in a safe and legal fashion as opposed to just letting them cross the border themselves and fend for themselves until picked up by CBP.
    I don't know either
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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    And if they don't, they shouldn't.
    Nancy Pelosi see this as an "opportunity" and from her point of view it iis, allowing that no good crisis should go to waste.

    The government is overwhelming the system, just as planned, and while each side debating is convinced they are right neither seems to fully understand how they are being manipulated. It comes as a shock to realize that Obama, Pelosi, Holder, Reid, Clinton, etc. actually know what they are doing in dividing the country the way they are.

    This seems a good time for all Americans to come together, reflect for a while, and ask themselves what's really happening to their country.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/nancy...#ixzz36tuxpgoY

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I have no knowledge of the specifics on the Unaccompanied Refugee Minor program.
    And, in that case, it specifically IS talking about "child trafficking victims" as opposed to "unaccompanied alien children". And again, I can't see a way to term the majority of these children as "child trafficking victims" without essentially establishing that ANY child brought into this country illegal as a means of escaping potential violence is being trafficked and thus illegal immigrant parents bringing their children with them for that reason would be "child traffickers"

    But I agree, I'm not sure what the difference is between placement in a "detention center" and placement in a "secure facility".

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    If they don't they should be deported. I think that's the plan, but you've at least got to hear them out first.
    The plan is to disseminate these kids to places in the US like Lawrenceville, Va, Syracuse, NY, Elmira, PA, California, and then release them to relatives already in the US, legally here or not, pending their hearing, presumably after cleaning them up, rendering them disease free, and providing funds for their living expenses. The initial funding request is $60,000 + per child. Not counting future health care. Not counting potential epidemics of nearly eradicated diseases. Not counting schooling. Not counting future welfare expenditures. The show up rate at deportation hearings is around 10% The prosecution rate for no shows is close to zero.

    If we need warehouse space, let's lease it in Mexico. Process at the border prior to granting entry or turning the flow around. Since these illegals are coming from Mexico, shouldn't Mexico kick in a few billion bucks?

    If Mexico doesn't like it, they can shut off their southern border.

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    The plan is to disseminate these kids to places in the US like Lawrenceville, Va, Syracuse, NY, Elmira, PA, California, and then release them to relatives already in the US, legally here or not, pending their hearing, presumably after cleaning them up, rendering them disease free, and providing funds for their living expenses. The initial funding request is $60,000 + per child. Not counting future health care. Not counting potential epidemics of nearly eradicated diseases. Not counting schooling. Not counting future welfare expenditures. The show up rate at deportation hearings is around 10% The prosecution rate for no shows is close to zero.

    If we need warehouse space, let's lease it in Mexico. Process at the border prior to granting entry or turning the flow around. Since these illegals are coming from Mexico, shouldn't Mexico kick in a few billion bucks?

    If Mexico doesn't like it, they can shut off their southern border.
    i don't think you are counting the children from the "northern triangle" countries of honduras, Guatemala, and el salvador.

    i don't think they came here to get a job, they were fleeing from violence.
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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I don't know either
    So doing some more research. The June 22nd article from CNN seems to be intentionally vague in regards to the immigration status of the "immigrant mother" that's being talked about. Throughout it keeps referencing "Central American Families" with little inidcation of the legal status of those families except for this blurb which suggest that they are families ILLEGALLY here:

    But Central American families take the risk any way, with private hopes that somehow they can obtain legal residency some day -- though the Obama administration warns that the unaccompanied children or mothers with children won't benefit from any proposed immigration reforms or a deferred deportation policy for young immigrants called Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals.
    That is the only mention of the legal status anywhere in the article, and suggest that the status CURRENTLY is NOT legal since they "hope" they can obtain legal status by sending their children to themselves.

    The July 3rd New York Times story has an immigration official suggesting that they'll be taken to "non-criminal" relatives, which is a bit ambiguous to the situation as well since we've heard often that simply being here illegally isn't a felony and thus some suggest they are not "criminal".

    The legitimacy of the notion that the parents are legally here is also questionable given the fact that they could bring their children into this country LEGALLY if that was the case, without paying for coyotes or causing them to take the dangerous route of being smuggled across the board. Why is that?

    (paraphrased due to layout)

    A Child Born Outside the U.S. is a Citizen after Birth IF…

    (A) The child was under 18 or not yet born on February 27, 2001
    (B) The child was under 18 from December 24, 1952 to February 26, 2001

    AND....

    (A) At least one parent is a U.S. citizen, the child is currently under 18 and residing in the U.S. in the legal and physical custody of the U.S. citizen parent pursuant to lawful admission for permanent residence.

    (B) The child was residing as a Green Card holder in the U.S. and both parents naturalized before the child’s 18th birthday (and some other supporting factors)

    (SOURCE)
    If they're being delivered to LEGAL parents LEGAL residing in the US, why in the world did they go about ILLEGAL entry that is dangerous, risky, and potentially costly? IF those parents are legally here then it begins to bring to question whether or not they are a safe household to deliver the chlidren to, as they chose to have their child undergo an extremely dangerous endevour either alone or with a criminal instead of simply legally bringing them in.

    At best, it seems that the immigration status of the families once found simply aren't being checked...which begs a whole lot of questions when the argument for why this MUST happen is that Obama MUST follow the law to the T. One would assume that such a check SHOULD be done considering that the law demands that the person it's being turned over to has their identity checked (and how can one verify who the person is if there's no official record of them) and requiring that it be investigated that the individual is not engaging in activity that would put the child at risk (which being here illegally, or more specifically if you want a higher crime WORKING here fraudulently and illegally).

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    i don't think you are counting the children from the "northern triangle" countries of honduras, Guatemala, and el salvador.

    i don't think they came here to get a job, they were fleeing from violence.
    There is no more violence now then there was three, five or 10 years ago. It's consistently high. If America tries to do anything about it then the US Government will be attacked, in America, for its 'interference'. Economic pressure should be put on these countries in order that they change - helping when they do the right thing, withholding when wrong. Money is the one thing everyone understands.

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    i don't think you are counting the children from the "northern triangle" countries of honduras, Guatemala, and el salvador.

    i don't think they came here to get a job, they were fleeing from violence.
    I'm counting border invaders. I don't care where they come from.

    R88 makes the point that they are entitled to a hearing. You have already made up your mind.

    Mexico obviously does not consider them worthy of refugee status. They are moving them through Mexico without any offer of help. They are also violating Mexico's borders, but no prosecution.

    Something smells bad here, and it is more than the smell of unwashed kids with lice and scabies. Mexico has tight controls on their borders. Particularly the Southern borders. Those illegals were not allowed into Mexico without the Mexicans knowing full well that the transported illegals would not be turned back to become Mexico's problem.

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