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Thread: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by 29A View Post
    What law do you think should apply?
    How about the laws that say you cannot enter the US without the proper documentation?

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    -editing, giving a second look-

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    That's what it says about unaccompanied alien children as it relates to CHILD TRAFFICKING VICTIMS.

    Contrary to your belief or your presentation, a singular piece of a law is not the entirety of it and doesn't exist abscent everything prior to and after the sentence you keep referring to.
    No, it does not say "as it related to child trafficking victims"

    As I've shown, laws often contain provisions that go beyond the issue that is mentioned in the laws title.

    Here is a link to the entire section of the US Code. Please quote where it says that the all of the provisions contained in that section are limited to child trafficking victims

    U.S.C. Title 8 - ALIENS AND NATIONALITY
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    That's what it says about unaccompanied alien children as it relates to CHILD TRAFFICKING VICTIMS.

    Contrary to your belief or your presentation, a singular piece of a law is not the entirety of it and doesn't exist abscent everything prior to and after the sentence you keep referring to.
    The section of the law I linked to in my previous post (the one whose meaning we are debating) states that the definition of "unaccompanied alien child" can be found in " section 279(g) of title 6."

    Here is section 279(g) of title 6.
    U.S.C. Title 6 - DOMESTIC SECURITY

    Here is the text that defines the term "unaccompanied alien child"
    (g) Definitions
    As used in this section—
    (1) the term “placement” means the placement of an unaccompanied alien child in either a detention facility or an alternative to such a facility; and
    (2) the term “unaccompanied alien child” means a child who—
    (A) has no lawful immigration status in the United States;
    (B) has not attained 18 years of age; and
    (C) with respect to whom—
    (i) there is no parent or legal guardian in the United States; or
    (ii) no parent or legal guardian in the United States is available to provide care and physical custody.
    Can you tell me where that definition says that it only applies to children who are the victims of trafficking?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    How about the laws that say you cannot enter the US without the proper documentation?
    That's racist.

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    How about the laws that say you cannot enter the US without the proper documentation?
    There are asylum laws that say under certain circumstances you can show up at the border and ask for asylum. There's a whole legal component to see if it's legit, but yeah....

    If these kids have a valid asylum claim, it should be heard.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Alright, read over everything another time now. I acknowledge my mistake in stating that it explitely is speaking only of "trafficking victims"...while the laws intention and stated purpose is clear, the language is not and the first part does cover all alien children of a non-contiguous country.

    I see nothing that suggests that they must be transported to their family illegally in this country or that they can't be held, though it comes down to how the law defines "Secure facilities" which I'm unable to find at this time (though the statute it references identifies "placement" as being applicable to a "detention facility"). I would argue that living illegally within this country, thus being at risk to be removed at any time and having to continually violate the law if they're actively engaging in work, is putting the child at risk so turning them over to illegally residing parents is not a legitimate course of action.

    But I do agree, these children do need to go before a judge for a hearing before being deported. While the President has indicated repeatedly a will go use executive actions to selectively enforce or follow the law in various manners and such I think could be fully capable of doing so here, I generally disagree with those actions and would disagree with it here simply for the sake of expediting the removal of these children. However, if their family in this country is illegal then the children should not be delivered to them as they are not a safe environment for the child. As such, some solution must be created for the children that is the least restrictive means of housing them until they can have their hearing.

    Additionally, the notion that we COULD find illegal family members for these various children...and yet are continually told it's not "possible" to actively seek out illegal aliens for deportation...is laughable. If we're able to determine that the child has family illegally in this country, then the ONLY way we should be delivering them to the family is if we're simultaneously moving forward with an deportation hearing for the family as well. Now if they have LEGAL family here, then by all means put them with them until the hearing and hold them responsible if they take flight to avoid the legal process.

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Alright, read over everything another time now. I acknowledge my mistake in stating that it explitely is speaking only of "trafficking victims"...while the laws intention and stated purpose is clear, the language is not and the first part does cover all alien children of a non-contiguous country.
    Thank you.

    I see nothing that suggests that they must be transported to their family illegally in this country or that they can't be held, though it comes down to how the law defines "Secure facilities" which I'm unable to find at this time (though the statute it references identifies "placement" as being applicable to a "detention facility"). I would argue that living illegally within this country, thus being at risk to be removed at any time and having to continually violate the law if they're actively engaging in work, is putting the child at risk so turning them over to illegally residing parents is not a legitimate course of action.
    This text talks about placement of unaccompanied alien children
    (c) Providing safe and secure placements for children
    (1) Policies and programs
    The Secretary of Health and Human Services, Secretary of Homeland Security, Attorney General, and Secretary of State shall establish policies and programs to ensure that unaccompanied alien children in the United States are protected from traffickers and other persons seeking to victimize or otherwise engage such children in criminal, harmful, or exploitative activity, including policies and programs reflecting best practices in witness security programs.
    (2) Safe and secure placements
    Subject to section 279(b)(2) of title 6, an unaccompanied alien child in the custody of the Secretary of Health and Human Services shall be promptly placed in the least restrictive setting that is in the best interest of the child. In making such placements, the Secretary may consider danger to self, danger to the community, and risk of flight. Placement of child trafficking victims may include placement in an Unaccompanied Refugee Minor program, pursuant to section 412(d) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1522(d)), if a suitable family member is not available to provide care. A child shall not be placed in a secure facility absent a determination that the child poses a danger to self or others or has been charged with having committed a criminal offense. The placement of a child in a secure facility shall be reviewed, at a minimum, on a monthly basis, in accordance with procedures prescribed by the Secretary, to determine if such placement remains warranted.
    Note that it specifies placement in the "least restrictive setting" and sets out conditions for placing the child in a "secure facility"

    But I do agree, these children do need to go before a judge for a hearing before being deported. While the President has indicated repeatedly a will go use executive actions to selectively enforce or follow the law in various manners and such I think could be fully capable of doing so here, I generally disagree with those actions and would disagree with it here simply for the sake of expediting the removal of these children. However, if their family in this country is illegal then the children should not be delivered to them as they are not a safe environment for the child. As such, some solution must be created for the children that is the least restrictive means of housing them until they can have their hearing.

    Additionally, the notion that we COULD find illegal family members for these various children...and yet are continually told it's not "possible" to actively seek out illegal aliens for deportation...is laughable. If we're able to determine that the child has family illegally in this country, then the ONLY way we should be delivering them to the parent is if we're simultaneously moving forward with an deportation hearing for the parent as well.
    Fair enough, but I'm not sure that the family members they are being placed with are here illegally. I did not notice anything in the text that speaks to that issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The section of the law I linked to in my previous post (the one whose meaning we are debating) states that the definition of "unaccompanied alien child" can be found in " section 279(g) of title 6."

    Here is section 279(g) of title 6.
    U.S.C. Title 6 - DOMESTIC SECURITY

    Here is the text that defines the term "unaccompanied alien child"


    Can you tell me where that definition says that it only applies to children who are the victims of trafficking?
    Obama could change the law with his pen or his phone.

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    Re: Border Meltdown: Obama Delivering 290,000 Illegals To U.S. Homes

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    There are asylum laws that say under certain circumstances you can show up at the border and ask for asylum. There's a whole legal component to see if it's legit, but yeah....

    If these kids have a valid asylum claim, it should be heard.
    And if they don't, they shouldn't.

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