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Thread: Teacher allegedly disciplined because her students' scores are too high

  1. #41
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    Re: Teacher allegedly disciplined because her students' scores are too high

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Assuming the OP's facts are correct, the problem seems to be this:
    "The New York State Education Department's performance rating system is designed to reward instructors and schools when students show academic improvement from one grade to the next"

    If the preceding teacher has already obtained an excellent performance from the students, there is no room for improvement in the next grade. It is wrong to punish the next teacher for having no improvement left to achieve. (i.e if a student is already getting all As there grades can not improve)
    Could be, I'm not sure how it works in NY. Here in California, however, the big test all must worship is a criterion, not a norm, referenced test. The school and the teachers are graded on how many students pass at the end of the year, and not on how much improvement there has been.

    If a teacher gets a class all performing at the "proficient" level, then passing them on to the next grade at that level should be pretty easy, as long as the test scores actually reflect their ability. What's difficult is getting a class that has a 10% pass rate, as you're still expected to have all of them being "proficient" at the end of the year.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Teacher allegedly disciplined because her students' scores are too high

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    But this doesn't appear to be a case of the "bad one" being punished. This appears to be attempting to punish a "good one" because they're good.
    Well it's a strange twist.

    By excelling she's making everyone else - who's still doing an 'okay job' mostly, I bet - to look bad.

    Therefor - everyone else, in contrast, will look like they suck, when they don't.

    It's like the apes and the bananas - just beat the ape that looks at the boxes with the bananas before it even climbs up to get it.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Teacher allegedly disciplined because her students' scores are too high

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    May be, but there's no evidence whatsoever of that. From the attorney for the teacher fired, it had to do with her not complying with her instruction to lower the scores of her students (insubordination).

    Again, there's no evidence to point to anything else.

    I do wish that either me or someone else could find another article about this so we could read another perspective.
    This could be a possibility. She may be a threat to the entire school system including the superintendent if they are put on a level 2 or 3 because of this policy. Just to make it clear, this is a threat to this teacher's superiors since they may have to pay a price for pushing the school to a high risk level. This has nothing to do with the union. If anything, the teacher union can help her. Also, this may be a case where cheating is suspected.

  4. #44
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    Re: Teacher allegedly disciplined because her students' scores are too high

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    This could be a possibility. She may be a threat to the entire school system including the superintendent if they are put on a level 2 or 3 because of this policy. Just to make it clear, this is a threat to this teacher's superiors since they may have to pay a price for pushing the school to a high risk level. This has nothing to do with the union. If anything, the teacher union can help her. Also, this may be a case where cheating is suspected.
    I agree that at this point, there are too many "ifs" and "may be's" to know for sure.

  5. #45
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    Re: Teacher allegedly disciplined because her students' scores are too high

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Could be, I'm not sure how it works in NY. Here in California, however, the big test all must worship is a criterion, not a norm, referenced test. The school and the teachers are graded on how many students pass at the end of the year, and not on how much improvement there has been.

    If a teacher gets a class all performing at the "proficient" level, then passing them on to the next grade at that level should be pretty easy, as long as the test scores actually reflect their ability. What's difficult is getting a class that has a 10% pass rate, as you're still expected to have all of them being "proficient" at the end of the year.
    In NYS, they do both. Students have to demonstrate proficiency and in addition, classes are measured by the progress that's been made.
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    Re: Teacher allegedly disciplined because her students' scores are too high

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    So the bottom line is: Teach your children to be mediocre. Well... that's about right.

    Same with the Pasco County School District in Florida who feels the achievement of valedictorians and salutatorian are "unfair" to the other children.
    Years ago I spoke with a school board member about getting more funding for a particular program that was seriously underfunded (compared to similar schools) but over achieving. I was told that their intent was to keep all programs at about the same level. Then I was told that that particular program was ranked as being second best in the state year after year, and he asked me why I thought that they needed more funding. I told him "so it can be the BEST in the state", the guy just stared at me expressionless and then walked off without saying another word.
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    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  7. #47
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    Re: Teacher allegedly disciplined because her students' scores are too high

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    May be, but there's no evidence whatsoever of that. From the attorney for the teacher fired, it had to do with her not complying with her instruction to lower the scores of her students (insubordination).

    Again, there's no evidence to point to anything else.

    I do wish that either me or someone else could find another article about this so we could read another perspective.
    It seems to me that ordering a teacher to lower their test scores is just the same as ordering the teacher to distort test scores, which I would suggest is essentially cheating.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  8. #48
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    Re: Teacher allegedly disciplined because her students' scores are too high

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    It seems to me that ordering a teacher to lower their test scores is just the same as ordering the teacher to distort test scores, which I would suggest is essentially cheating.
    Yes. It is cheating. But by whom? The teacher, or the school administration?

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    Re: Teacher allegedly disciplined because her students' scores are too high

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Yes. It is cheating. But by whom? The teacher, or the school administration?
    Good question.
    Given the importance that is attributed to the mighty "test", I'd be surprised of there weren't a lot of cheating going on.
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    Re: Teacher allegedly disciplined because her students' scores are too high

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Yes. It is cheating. But by whom? The teacher, or the school administration?
    It's the school cheating by ordering the teacher to cheat. Disgusting and unacceptable.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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