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Thread: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

  1. #131
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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No, it doesn't.

    Because ISIL is AQI. They are an organization literally founded to kill Americans and foment a civil war in Iraq.

    Furthermore, we have a pretty good idea of the groups we are actually helping in Syria, as well as a depiction of the groups we helped in Libya, some of whom may now be in Syria. Neither of these sets of groups is ISIL, or ISIL - affiliated.

    So, yes. Conspiracy theory. Because in order for it to be true, it would require that secret US foriegn policy was working at odds to US interests, seeking to kill US citizens, and seeking to ruin our stated foreign policy goals in the Middle East. It would require that there actually be a conspiracy to carry out. So yes, a conspiracy theory. Simply saying "Oh, ISIL is a terrorist group. Some of the people we helped in Libya turned into terrorists groups. Obviously a case can be made that the US might have helped any terrorist group" isn't logical, its' nonsensical. I could use the same logic to make the claim that the US supported the Black Panthers, or that Iran was also supporting ISIL. Both of which would be equally idiotic.

    I understand that those who have no education in actual terror groups might get easily confused and not know the difference between, for example, Hezbollah and Hamas, or ANF and ISIL. But people who dont' have any idea what they are talking about shouldn't try to propose policy based on their ignorance.

    Which takes us right back to where we began. Either Paul is ignorant, or he is lying.
    No doubt Paul would say the same thing of you. Ill go with a guy who has far more knowledge than you do cp. destabilisation of the ME is clearly US foreign policy. If not, then we have a string of hugely incompetent administrations. And just so you'll know, guys like you and I on an Internet message board have no part in policy agenda, we just voice our opinions on its merit or lack thereof as we see it.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  2. #132
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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    No doubt Paul would say the same thing of you. Ill go with a guy who has far more knowledge than you do cp.
    Paul has demonstrated that he does not have more knowledge than I have, just as you have demonstrated in this thread that you do not have as much knowledge as I have. Which is why you refuse to go into the particulars of ISIL, instead preferring to attempt to spin to strawmen such as Afghanistan in the 80s.

    destabilisation of the ME is clearly US foreign policy. If not, then we have a string of hugely incompetent administrations.
    Wait, wait, wait.... surely you're not going to suggest that government is by and large a bumbling behemoth, and generally incapable of performing effectively and efficiently at tasks that it sets itself?!?

    And just so you'll know, guys like you and I on an Internet message board have no part in policy agenda, we just voice our opinions on its merit or lack thereof as we see it.
    The case can defend itself or it can't. The case that we are supporting or have supported ISIL cannot defend itself. It cannot even find any evidence.

  3. #133
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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Paul has demonstrated that he does not have more knowledge than I have, just as you have demonstrated in this thread that you do not have as much knowledge as I have. Which is why you refuse to go into the particulars of ISIL, instead preferring to attempt to spin to strawmen such as Afghanistan in the 80s.



    Wait, wait, wait.... surely you're not going to suggest that government is by and large a bumbling behemoth, and generally incapable of performing effectively and efficiently at tasks that it sets itself?!?



    The case can defend itself or it can't. The case that we are supporting or have supported ISIL cannot defend itself. It cannot even find any evidence.
    Well we obviously disagree on the first, the second, why yes of course and the third, the senator informed you of. But from your house in the woods, you only think you have a better understanding.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by 24107 View Post
    Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria | TheHill
    Do you think this will continue?
    He's lying.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  5. #135
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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Well we obviously disagree on the first,
    To my knowledge Paul isn't on the Intelligence Subcommittee, meaning that he has your standard TS/SCI clearance, the same as me. Except that I study this sort of thing for a living, and he riles up political supporters for a living.

    the second, why yes of course
    Well there you are then. I never cease to be amazed by those who insist the United States Government is incompetent to the task of governing well, but then give it the presumption of omniscience and omnipotence when it takes on a security role.

    and the third, the senator informed you of. But from your house in the woods, you only think you have a better understanding.
    the senator didn't present a case, he presented a claim. A claim that has no credible backing, and flies in the face of everything else we know about ISIL.

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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    To my knowledge Paul isn't on the Intelligence Subcommittee, meaning that he has your standard TS/SCI clearance, the same as me. Except that I study this sort of thing for a living, and he riles up political supporters for a living.



    Well there you are then. I never cease to be amazed by those who insist the United States Government is incompetent to the task of governing well, but then give it the presumption of omniscience and omnipotence when it takes on a security role.



    the senator didn't present a case, he presented a claim. A claim that has no credible backing, and flies in the face of everything else we know about ISIL.


    ISIS Trained by US Government
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post


    This is where actually knowing what you are talking about comes into play. These people are confusing "opposition fighters in Syria" with "ISIS".

    For example, claiming that Salim Idris was the former head of ISIL prior to being replaced?



    Salim Idris was the head of the Free Syrian Army (here is a hint: the FSA and ISIL kill each other. They are not friends). Abubakr al-Baghdadi is and has been the head of ISIL throughout this period. And al-Douri is a Baathist, for cripes sakes.

    Again, this is why people like Paul (and, I suppose, this idiot reporter) need to other to spend a minimum of 10 minutes educating themselves before they start speaking to policy. Or else they make incredibly stupid pronouncements, like this one.

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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post


    This is where actually knowing what you are talking about comes into play. These people are confusing "opposition fighters in Syria" with "ISIS".

    For example, claiming that Salim Idris was the former head of ISIL prior to being replaced?



    Salim Idris was the head of the Free Syrian Army (here is a hint: the FSA and ISIL kill each other. They are not friends). Abubakr al-Baghdadi is and has been the head of ISIL throughout this period. And al-Douri is a Baathist, for cripes sakes.

    Again, this is why people like Paul (and, I suppose, this idiot reporter) need to other to spend a minimum of 10 minutes educating themselves before they start speaking to policy. Or else they make incredibly stupid pronouncements, like this one.
    The relationships between many of the militant groups from Libya into Syria, Iraq, etc., are not completely known or understood. Groups have morphed, worked together, divorced themselves from one another (as with the case between AQ and IS most recently) which had caused all the hand wringing over supplying arms into Syria all along. Things aren't nearly as neat as you describe them. One thing is certain, as a matter of policy, the US has supported militant Islamic groups in this region for decades, and except to the most un-observant, it has achieved its goal of destabilisation. I'll accept Paul's assessment as it fits the SOP.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    If it weren't such a serious matter I'd suspect this is a joke a la "The Onion." Blithering nonsense.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  10. #140
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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The relationships between many of the militant groups from Libya into Syria, Iraq, etc., are not completely known or understood. Groups have morphed, worked together, divorced themselves from one another (as with the case between AQ and IS most recently) which had caused all the hand wringing over supplying arms into Syria all along. Things aren't nearly as neat as you describe them. One thing is certain, as a matter of policy, the US has supported militant Islamic groups in this region for decades, and except to the most un-observant, it has achieved its goal of destabilisation. I'll accept Paul's assessment as it fits the SOP.
    Ignorance speaks.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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