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Thread: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    If Paul were to argue that arming the rebels increases the risk that weapons could wind up in the hands of ISIS, increase the kind of unstable situation that ISIS can exploit, etc., that would be technically correct. His claim that the U.S. is "arming" ISIS has no basis in fact.
    Direct or indirect through our arming of other militant Islamic groups who have succumbed to IS is a HUGE problem that won't be repaired dwelling on technicalities.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    https://public.isishq.com/public/about/default.aspx
    "ISIS is headquartered outside Fort Huachuca in Sierra Vista, Arizona. Our Washington D.C. office is located in the Ronald Reagan Building. We are dedicated to supporting our national defense and security departments, as well as government contractors and private business, with mission-critical services performed by highly skilled experts in their fields. ISIS professionals can be found working side by side with the U.S. Armed Forces, U.S. Government and Prime Contractors on the ground in such strategic environments as the Middle East. See Our Locations Map at the bottom of the page.
    Last edited by 24107; 07-04-14 at 03:29 AM.

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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Whether Paul is wrong about that particular brand, I don't know.
    Well, I do know. It is not exactly a secret, either, it is known and knowable by anyone willing to spend longer than 5 minutes either reading or hearing about the situation in Syria/Iraq. Paul is either demonstrating that he cannot be bothered to study foreign policy prior to pontificating on it, or that he does not care about accuracy, and prefers instead to grandstand in order to charge up responses from those already predisposed to agree with him.

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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No it's not. You claim that we're not doing this and that Paul is lying, but offer no proof.
    You cannot prove a negative. However, it is possible to highlight the groups that did receive US support - such as the Libyan groups (who aren't ISIL, but who at worst now have aligned themselves with AQIM, who is beholden to AQSL, and is thus currently in a state of conflict with ISIL, as they back ANF, which launches attacks against ISIL) who received lethal aid, and the non-lethal aid that went to non-aligned Syrian groups such as the Free Syrian Army, who also ended up fighting ISIL. So all of our aid thus far has generally gone to groups who kill and die fighting ISIL.

    Your statements had come off as rather absolute. I was merely pointing out that arming rebels is what we do, we'll do it secretly and against the directives of Congress if we must. We've trained and armed organizations which have turned around and fought us. It seems quite possible that we could have been buddy, buddy with ISIS at their start.
    No it is not. Firstly, ISIL is old AQI. That's why Maqdisi's remonstrance of the Caliphate is so salient. You will recall that we bombed AMZ after he started an Iraqi civil war that cost us thousands of soldiers and Marines, and that we spent several years and created tribal militia's specifically to destroy them? These are the guys who left Al-Qaeda because it wasn't extreme enough, and they were that way back in 06-08 as well. This is the group that was originally founded explicitly to wage war on the US and try to destroy our efforts in Iraq.

    Again, this stuff isn't exactly hidden, secret knowledge - it's the basic map for anyone who spends a few minutes actually looking at this problem set, which should include senior US legislators who wish to shape foreign policy. It's sort of the organization equivalent of saying that Iraq is the country located to the west of Iran that features the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. Anyone who pontificates on Iraq that doesn't know that will and should be dismissed out of hand.

    But you have the knowledge that says otherwise, so why don't you detail how you came about this knowledge.
    Firstly, no. But I've served in this area before, and continue to watch it.

    Secondly, it's not exactly as if this stuff can't be found on teh open interwebz with incredible ease. A simple 30-second google search could have saved Paul, if he was intending to honestly present US foreign policy towards ISIL.

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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Well, I do know. It is not exactly a secret, either, it is known and knowable by anyone willing to spend longer than 5 minutes either reading or hearing about the situation in Syria/Iraq. Paul is either demonstrating that he cannot be bothered to study foreign policy prior to pontificating on it, or that he does not care about accuracy, and prefers instead to grandstand in order to charge up responses from those already predisposed to agree with him.
    Paul has demonstrated that he's a politician like the rest. The fact remains, that at least back to the Carter administration, the US has been supporting militant Islamic groups, and this needs to be exposed and corrected.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Paul has demonstrated that he's a politician like the rest. The fact remains, that at least back to the Carter administration, the US has been supporting militant Islamic groups, and this needs to be exposed and corrected.
    Not really. For example, the Kurds are both militant and Islamic, and they deserve our support - they are probably the only stable portion of that particular region.

    Paul's selling point is that he is not a politician like the rest. If he's going to lie to the American people about a major foreign policy issue in order to score cheap thrills from his base, then he has discredited the basis by which he claims the right to political influence.

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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Not really. For example, the Kurds are both militant and Islamic, and they deserve our support - they are probably the only stable portion of that particular region.

    Paul's selling point is that he is not a politician like the rest. If he's going to lie to the American people about a major foreign policy issue in order to score cheap thrills from his base, then he has discredited the basis by which he claims the right to political influence.
    Lots of politicians claim that they're not politicians like the rest. It's a common claim during a political campaign to be an "outsider" to not be a politician when, in fact, they're running for political office.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Lots of politicians claim that they're not politicians like the rest. It's a common claim during a political campaign to be an "outsider" to not be a politician when, in fact, they're running for political office.
    and then Paul proceeded to make trouble for his own leadership in order to brand himself that way. I agree you get plenty of folks claiming to be outsiders - but few actually try to craft a complete political identity around that. If the best response is to point out that Paul is really no different from (for example) the current administration, well, okay. My point was only that he was either uninformed, or lying.

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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Didn't the FBI or the CIA lose crates of military carbines to Mexican drug cartels in a botched undercover deal? Bottom line on the Middle East: The U.S. does not have a clue on what to do and when and where. Recall WWII when we did not know how we were going to handle the people of Japan when we occupied so we just nuked the twice and all was cool.

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    Re: Paul: US has been arming ISIS in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    and then Paul proceeded to make trouble for his own leadership in order to brand himself that way. I agree you get plenty of folks claiming to be outsiders - but few actually try to craft a complete political identity around that. If the best response is to point out that Paul is really no different from (for example) the current administration, well, okay. My point was only that he was either uninformed, or lying.

    kind of reminds me of McCain running as a "maverick".
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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