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Thread: ISIS in Iraq seizes control of Saddam Husseinís chemical weapons facility

  1. #291
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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    What about them? A shipment of the tubes were seized. And yes, they could have been used to make centrifuges.
    Just as Powell said.
    That's not what the people who deal with these sorts of centrifuges said.
    http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/Duel...2.pdf#page=159

    Although ISG also uncovered inconsistencies that raise questions about whether high-specification aluminum tubes were really needed for such a rocket program, these discrepancies are not sufficient to show a nuclear end use was planned for the tubes.
    Last edited by Simon W. Moon; 06-21-14 at 06:29 PM.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Let's be honest, the invasion of Iraq was a mistake. I believe that Bush/Cheney were sincere in their belief that Iraq had WMD's, but in the end the intelligence failure that caused them to come to this conclusion resulted in the US invading Iraq under false pretenses. This in no way helped our international standing and removed our moral high ground. This initial terrible decision was compounded by the continued policy failures, from the open-ended nature of the invasion to the removal of all facets of the existing Iraqi government. These mistakes, and others, have resulted in the situation we are in now, with Iraq slipping towards anarchy. It is ludicrous to blame Obama for the current situation, for he inherited a war in which to many damaging mistakes had already been made to create any kind of stability. Anyways, the Iraqi practically pushed us out in 2011. In my opinion, with the delicate political situation and instability in Iraq it is our best interest to keep out of it as much as possible. We cant solve all the world's problems, and our attempt to in Iraq has only made things worse. We could not and cant babysit them forever, we need to let them deal with their own problems. We have our own to deal with.

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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    That's not what the people who deal with these sorts of centrifuges said.
    http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/Duel...2.pdf#page=159

    Although ISG also uncovered inconsistencies that raise questions about whether high-specification aluminum tubes were really needed for such a rocket program, these discrepancies are not sufficient to show a nuclear end use was planned for the tubes.
    Irrelevant. They were controlled items because they could be used to make centrifuge rotors.

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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by Democrat152 View Post
    Let's be honest, the invasion of Iraq was a mistake.


    That is simply monday Morning quarterbacking. You're not psychic, therefore you have no clue what the situation would be like today if we did not invade. It could be a lot worse. There could have been simultaneous mushroom clouds in NYC, Washington and Chicago as far as you know.

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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    Irrelevant. They were controlled items because they could be used to make centrifuge rotors.
    You mean missiles. They were suitable for making missiles, not centrifuges.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayton3 View Post
    A couple of things:

    1) Lying to justify a war is not a crime and is amply precedented in U.S. history (James K. Polk as one example).
    2) Exaggerating the case for war is also not a crime nor immoral any more than a prosecutor emphasizing parts of their case against a defendant that support their guilt is not immoral or a crime.

    3) Once again, the CIA Director George Tenet (a Clinton appointee with no loyalty to the Bush Admin.) exclaimed after a direct question from President Bush about the evidence in favor of WMDs that it was a "slam dunk". He repeated it.

    If your CIA Director says the evidence is a "slam dunk" then what was President Bush supposed to believe.
    You are correct: incompetence is not a crime. Unfortunately the harm is worse than any crime I have heard about. Consider:

    - $4 to 6T in money spent (one third of our current national debt)
    - the 4,000+ American lives
    - the 2.5 million American service members whose lives (and the lives of their families) will never be the same because they have been tainted with the smell of death
    - the 50,000+ Iraqi lives lost
    - millions of displaced Iraqi familiers
    - Iraq national treasures stolen or destoryed....all to remove a two bit dictator that was of little threat to US National security.

    http://costsofwar.org/article/economic-cost-summary
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...a60_story.html
    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/...0971364571298/

    Not to mention that our actions most likely furthered the problem we were trying to solve...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/wo...rror.html?_r=0

    Iraq was as stupid as stupid gets..... The people that got us into this mess were as incompetent as incompetent gets.

    Though incompetence is not criminal, these people (the one's that got us into this mess) were undoubtedly bad people...
    Last edited by upsideguy; 06-22-14 at 01:30 AM.

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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Imported from Capitol Hill Blue:

    Iraq revisionism | Foreign Policy & News | ReaderRant

    At the time the Iraq adventure began I had already been called back into active service when my reserve unit was mobilized after 9/11. Because I was in operations, I am quite familiar with the planning process and knew people in the planning cells for Iraq. There had been plans in place since Desert Storm for just such a contingency. THE most important part of any such operation is post-invasion security - it's an international law requirement - and always requires the most robust manning and planning. The existing civil/security structure (police/military/civil administration) was always a part of the post-invasion plan. My friends were told, however, that no planning was required because "we wouldn't be there that long." Any military man knows such thinking is nuts. When Jay Garner waa appointed to lead the "transition", being a military man, he knew that the existing assets had to be a part of the recovery - so, naturally, he was axed.

    The blood of tens of thousands of Allies and Iraqis are on the hands of Donald Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Bremer, Cheney Bush and the lot, as well as Kristol Kagan and their cabal because they put rank amateurs in charge of military operations and broke every protocol established since the lessons learned in WWII. I, and every military planner, knew Iraq was lost as soon as the looting of the national museum was excused as "boys will be boys" and they need to let off steam. Gross incompetence coupled with hubris and ideology leads to catastrophe. All of it could have been prevented.
    ---by "Northwest Ponderer
    If I didn't respond to your diatribe, it's possible you may have
    engaged in revisionism or broad sweeping generalizations.
    I don't have time for either, and you're probably on my IGNORE list.

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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by Utility Man View Post
    So Bush Inc tried to eliminate the threat of WMDs and failed miserably. Doesn't surprise me at all.
    Mission accomplished.

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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    You are correct: incompetence is not a crime. Unfortunately the harm is worse than any crime I have heard about. Consider:

    - $4 to 6T in money spent (one third of our current national debt)
    - the 4,000+ American lives
    - the 2.5 million American service members whose lives (and the lives of their families) will never be the same because they have been tainted with the smell of death
    - the 50,000+ Iraqi lives lost
    - millions of displaced Iraqi familiers
    - Iraq national treasures stolen or destoryed....all to remove a two bit dictator that was of little threat to US National security.

    Economic Cost Summary | Costs of War
    Study: Iraq, Afghan war costs to top $4 trillion - The Washington Post
    Harvard study: Iraq, Afghan wars will cost $4 trillion to $6 trillion - UPI.com

    Not to mention that our actions most likely furthered the problem we were trying to solve...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/wo...rror.html?_r=0

    Iraq was as stupid as stupid gets..... The people that got us into this mess were as incompetent as incompetent gets.

    Though incompetence is not criminal, these people (the one's that got us into this mess) were undoubtedly bad people...
    I don't know, I think I'd like to see dubya in an orange jumpsuit, with numbers stenciled on it.

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    Re: ISIS in Iraq seizes control of Saddam Husseinís chemical weapons facility

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    In 2003 there wasn't anything of high value. Even the article says they don't believe there is anything in there of military value. That doesn't mean they can't use the material in there to make some dirty type of chemical weapon that could affect a small amount of people.
    And, of course, the fear mongers will ramp up talk of terrorists getting their hands on a dirty bomb and, as such, come out of the woodworks in droves proclaiming, "I told you so".

    I've read the published reports concerning the level of chemical weapons found during the War in Iraq and talked with many soldiers who returned from Iraq - some of whom are my neighbors - who themselves were on patrols looking for such weapons. I firmly believed both the reports themselves and the eyewitness accounts that there were no WMD in Iraq. However, that doesn't mean that Saddam did not ship those weapons to Syria. Reports of him having done so have never truly been verified. However, once reports starting coming out of Syria that chemical weapons were used I'd say the dots were connected.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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