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Thread: ISIS in Iraq seizes control of Saddam Husseinís chemical weapons facility

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    Re: ISIS in Iraq seizes control of Saddam Husseinís chemical weapons facility

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    I read them and Bush said no such thing. What he did say in his book was that none were found. Perhaps what ISIS actually just captured was a very large shipment of Pringles potato chips?
    Throwing the Pringles would probably be more dangerous..even in 2003.

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    Re: ISIS in Iraq seizes control of Saddam Husseinís chemical weapons facility

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    It would make a mess, for sure.

    What kind of problems would that cause for me here in beautiful northern New Jersey?

    Not a one.

    Kinda hard for me to care about this.
    But what about those chickens? [that might come home to roost]
    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity. Be fools for Christ. And have the courage to suffer the contempt of the sophisticated world." - Antonin Scalia

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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    They are useless as artillery rounds. Would you stand in a room with one and open it?
    According to our government they are useless period.
    "The facility in Al Muthanna is said to still contain a stockpile of old weapons. However, the militants from the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Shams will have a hard time using them, even if they manage to access them, the Wall Street Journal reported.

    According to the U.S., the weapons are old, contaminated and hard to move. "We remain concerned about the seizure of any military site by the ISIL," Jen Psaki, the State Department spokeswoman, said in a written statement according to the Journal. "We do not believe that the complex contains CW materials of military value and it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to safely move the materials."

    However, a survey of the site conducted by the Iraq Study Group determined the facility has since been dismantled, and that existing weapons stockpiles was sealed and unusable, the Journal said."

    According to U.S. officials, the seizure of the Muthanna complex, though attention grabbing, is meaningless as far as concerns for usage of chemical weapons goes."
    Iraqi militants ISIS seize Saddam's top chemical weapons facility - Middle East Israel News | Haaretz


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    Re: ISIS in Iraq seizes control of Saddam Husseinís chemical weapons facility

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayton3 View Post
    Broken windows principle of law enforcement.

    Violence and chaos in one part of the world causes more in other parts as time goes on.

    Anyone that thinks violence around the world won't eventually cause problems on U.S. territory are hiding their heads in the sand.
    LOL

    Yeah, okay.

    Maybe we DO need to expand the NSA, revoke the 2nd Amendment, and give bigger contracts to Halliburton.

    It's the ONLY way we'll be safe from the terrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrorists.

    Seriously dude, we spent most of the 1960s, 70s, 80s and 90s inciting war and violence around the world and installing/propping up brutal dictators.

    Divide et impera.

    When the savages are fighting each other they've got no time to fight us.

    When the savages are being kept like wild animals in a cage they're so afraid of the stick and the lash that they keep their heads down and cower.

    Anywhere in the world there is a tyrant with his boot on the neck of the Arab or the African, we should be there. Standing firmly behind the tyrant.

    Then George W. Bush, geopolitical idiot, decides he wants to give the Arab democracy?

    Are you ****ing kidding me?

    Look at Somalia.

    When the Soviets were supporting the Barre government Somalia was like a pet dog.

    Then the Cold War drew to a close, Somalia's strategic importance was diminished, the Iron Curtain fell, the lunatics took over the asylum, the country fractured, and next thing you know you've got the Muslim Brotherhood, Egyptian Islamic Jihad, and the precursors of al Qaida running around the Horn like it's cool.

    What the Soviets did to the Horn of Africa in the 90s, we just did to Arabia.

    Yeah, let's get back behind Maliki and continue spreading that good ol' fashioned democracy, treating those people like they're us.

    We can support him as a benign nationalist because broken windows are ugly.

    And when the madrases in Iraq start preaching anti-Western Islamism like they do in Saudi Arabia (no broken windows there!) we know where the next batch of REAL terrorists will come from.
    Last edited by soot; 06-20-14 at 06:41 PM.
    ďNow it is not good for the Christianís health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: ďA Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.Ē

  5. #245
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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    According to our government they are useless period.
    "The facility in Al Muthanna is said to still contain a stockpile of old weapons. However, the militants from the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Shams will have a hard time using them, even if they manage to access them, the Wall Street Journal reported.

    According to the U.S., the weapons are old, contaminated and hard to move. "We remain concerned about the seizure of any military site by the ISIL," Jen Psaki, the State Department spokeswoman, said in a written statement according to the Journal. "We do not believe that the complex contains CW materials of military value and it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to safely move the materials."

    However, a survey of the site conducted by the Iraq Study Group determined the facility has since been dismantled, and that existing weapons stockpiles was sealed and unusable, the Journal said."

    According to U.S. officials, the seizure of the Muthanna complex, though attention grabbing, is meaningless as far as concerns for usage of chemical weapons goes."
    Iraqi militants ISIS seize Saddam's top chemical weapons facility - Middle East Israel News | Haaretz
    Lol !

    " Sealed " ?

    What exactly does that mean ? Like welded shut ?

    Bolted shut ? Is there a Child proof cap that MIGHT keep a toddler or curious Chimpanzee from killing themself ?

    Because nothing is " Sealed " absolutely.

    And " unusable " implies that all existing chemical stockpiles have been rendered inert, so no reason to " seal " them right ?

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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Well, that's one of the analytical gaps we discovered later - it never occurred to anyone to consider what his motivations for running a deception campaign designed to threaten his neighbors might be.
    I like the way you put it.
    I'm guessing you're probably right. Who would have thought that Saddam would mount what's basically a campaign to "out bull**** the bull****ters"...essentially "talking smack" about his capabilities both hardware and otherwise. Maybe he figured his neighbors would buy it but he didn't count on us buying it too?
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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Enriched?
    Of course it has to be enriched. That requires, among other things, transforming it into uranium hexafluoride via a network of centrifuges.
    Our intel grasped that pretty far back and we also figured out that Iran was in the process of doing the same thing, only in the case of Iran they had
    actually begun real work...they actually had the centrifuges and they were operational. We unleashed the STUXNET virus which caused the centrifuges to overspeed, which is a severe hardware damage situation. Thus we rendered Iran's centrifuges unsalvageable.

    Saddam did not have centrifuges built, set up or operational so it was more like a case of "he had some limited amounts of the raw precursor and he was desperately looking for the know how, and the hardware. Constructing centrifuges in a locked off rogue state is something that attracts global attention, as does any attempt to import them, whole or in part.

    But yellowcake in raw form is not a raw stock for a dirty bomb. The material just doesn't put out that much radiation in that state; it behaves in a matter similar to the raw ore, radiologically speaking.

    Going from raw yellowcake to weaponized fissionable material is a thoroughly complicated, arduous and precision process in which the slightest deviation from the required recipe and enrichment steps yields either a high risk disaster on site to all involved personnel, or a total dud, a washout. You basically end up with a whole lot of very expensive dirt.

    Sure, there are whiz kids who are capable of constructing a "pile" which can "go critical" but we are talking about constructing a nuclear weapon, not a pile.
    Generally the kids who have successfully constructed a pile have obtained the already refined fissionable material in tiny amounts via means like stolen medical gear, research reactor fuel stockpiles, pulsed power sites, etc.

    If there are any examples of an amateur refining their own yellowcake into weaponized fissionable materials please share because I don't know of any.
    Not saying it can't happen, I'm saying I would be amazed that I hadn't run across it yet. So I could be wrong on this but I am not wrong on my assessment of yellowcake in its raw form. There are old photographic lenses out there with thorium coatings on them which are more dangerous than yellowcake.
    "The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I don't know if I'd call 500 rounds "minute" - but then that's a subjective term. How many do you think we maintain? both of which still prove the point being made A) Saddam still had legacy WMD and B) he did not have ongoing production programs. that is correct. The 1,000 or so side-stored radioactive materials found with it were what could be used for dirty bombs - the main purpose for enriched uranium is nuclear energy, either slow and steady out of a plant, or all of a sudden out of a bomb. I don't have to counter it. It's naive idiocy is at this point rather self-apparent. I might as well suggest that Obama was deliberately lying when his administration gave us the unemployment projections for the stimulus. It's not that he was lying - it's that he was wrong, and wrong largely because he'd been informed wrongly by the experts, who themselves had good reasons for being wrong.
    More CON game- 500 rounds were UNACCOUNTED for pre-invasion, they were never 'found' post invasion. The list of found Chem weapons doesn't include some 500 rounds...

    Saddam didn't have legacy chem weapons, there were a few that didn't explode when the UN destroyed them in a huge pit, there were a few older shells that had been missed, a few that had been cleaned out and Faux Noise made huge stink about some the Poles found- that were empty...

    But two older shells lost amidst the massive UN program isn't a legacy.

    3-5% enriched isn't bomb grade material, it takes a huge effort to improve 3-5% uranium to weapons grade- Iran is taking thousands of centrifuges and years to attempt that last refinement.

    You use the typical CON dodge again... the 'thousands of radioactive items' were MEDICAL/CIVILIAN isotopes- the kind found in any major city. Saddam wasn't collecting them to make dirty bombs... BushII's piss poor security after the fall put those items within the terrorist's reach.

    You CAN'T counter much, and trying a CON deflection to the employment figures is pathetic. The fact is BushII lied- your feeble attempt to make 3-5% uranium 'dangerous', medical supplies into terrorist weapons, 2 atry shells into the massive stockpile Rummy could put his hands on (do note Rummy never went anywhere near where a stock pile MIGHT be)- your trying to make that into vindication for BushII's lies (and that is what you said in your first post)

    NOW it is the 'experts' who knowingly lied, not BushII wanting a show down with Saddam to plant the seeds of democracy and prove a Neo-CON position paper. BushII was just a gullible fool who didn't figure out after the third claim was decisively proven to be false the whole confrontation was a snow job....

    Yeah now that is a legacy for ya....

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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    It's there, it just needs to be built...

    You claiming Iraq or any nation in the Mid East lacks the hardware to make a bomb?

    Probably not against the US but that doesn't mean they cant use it against others in the region or use it as a bargaining chip while Michelle eats her ****ing hamburgers.
    I'm saying that you might be vastly oversimplifying and when people oversimplify the door gets opened to huge mistakes.
    You said that they "found the technology" and I simply asked what you believe they found.
    Saying "it just needs to be built" doesn't say anything.

    I found the technology to do zero to sixty in less than one second, but it just needs to be built.
    Does that mean that I have a Keith Black HEMI engine with Rootes the 8-71 blower sitting in a roller chassis that just needs the laptop and the software to adjust the fuel management or does it just mean I have a poster of Red Victor 1 on my bedroom wall?

    "The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg


  10. #250
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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    ...so no reason to " seal " them right ?
    Iirc, UNSCOM sealed the places. UNSCOM ceased to be in 1999. Not sure if today's current conditions were what caused UNSCOM to have a "reason to ' seal ' them."
    UNSCOM may have sealed the bunkers based on conditions at the time.
    I may be wrong.

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