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Thread: ISIS in Iraq seizes control of Saddam Husseinís chemical weapons facility

  1. #231
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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    More like vapid CON no-sense...

    Minute amounts of old chem weapons doesn't a stockpile make.
    I don't know if I'd call 500 rounds "minute" - but then that's a subjective term. How many do you think we maintain?

    Some arty pro-jos tested positive but were 'rebranded' shells filled with explosives. I can only find 2 cases where an IED tested positive for chem AND apparently were so degraded they failed to be lethal
    both of which still prove the point being made A) Saddam still had legacy WMD and B) he did not have ongoing production programs.

    Did you read the Faux Noise article you cite? 2 tons of 3-5% uranium that CAN'T be used for a dirty bomb..
    that is correct. The 1,000 or so side-stored radioactive materials found with it were what could be used for dirty bombs - the main purpose for enriched uranium is nuclear energy, either slow and steady out of a plant, or all of a sudden out of a bomb.

    The 2007 CIA report on the 'facility' claims the buildings are razed, the equipment destroyed, and the chem stockpiles are old damaged and contaminated.

    You have done ZERO to counter the simplistic chant- 'Bush lied and good troops died'...
    I don't have to counter it. It's naive idiocy is at this point rather self-apparent. I might as well suggest that Obama was deliberately lying when his administration gave us the unemployment projections for the stimulus. It's not that he was lying - it's that he was wrong, and wrong largely because he'd been informed wrongly by the experts, who themselves had good reasons for being wrong.

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    Re: ISIS in Iraq seizes control of Saddam Husseinís chemical weapons facility

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    What if they loaded a couple of these on a flat-bed with some C4 and drove them into Baghdad?
    It would make a mess, for sure.

    What kind of problems would that cause for me here in beautiful northern New Jersey?

    Not a one.

    Kinda hard for me to care about this.
    ďNow it is not good for the Christianís health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: ďA Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.Ē

  3. #233
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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    They our government has already admitted that and weapons inspectors in the past stated the exact same thing.
    And I hope they are correct. I have learned that westerners tend to mirror-image capability, forgetting that people who grow up having to jury-rig everything can make equipment work longer and further than we would have thought. But we have some pretty good CBRN people, so I would bet they are probably correct.

    One POS roadside bomb that caused no damage! Proof Iraq had a large quanity of WMDS and was a dangerous threat! War was worth it!
    See, this is your problem - you are so dedicated to the notion of discrediting any kind of argument in favor of the war, that you are unable to view this issue outside of that lense. I'm not trying to argue that the illicit materials Saddam had were justification in and of themselves for the invasion - only that he had them.

    No. Not this report again. More old unusable weapons.
    Unusable as artillery shells, yes - but chem for a terror group isn't useful for it's kinetic strike enhancement capability, but for the Information Effects.

    no its the correct argument. Even the Bush administration and the intelligence community admits we found nothing.
    That's an interesting claim, given that I have cited for you the Director of National Intelligence and the National Ground Intelligence Center saying that is not accurate.

    You have went from the point of "Iraq wasnt invaded on a lie, it was invaded on faulty intelegence and there was no WMDS". Then I showed that the Bush admin only listened to what they wanted to hear and there was a lot of dissent against the official position of the Bush admin. To know you are saying "oh there were WMD's".
    No, I have said consistently that:

    A) we did not go to war on a lie, but part of our reasons for going were wrong (for a left-wing example of this: when the Obama administration sold the stimulus package, he did not lie about the unemployment statistics, he was merely wrong)
    B) we found WMD's in-country, and we found illegal missiles, but we did not find ongoing production programs, which is what we thought we would find.

    You have repeatedly attempted to collapse the issue of whether or not we should have gone to war into the narrower issue of whether or not there were WMD's, and the issue of whether or not there were WMD's on whether or not there were the kinds that we didn't find v the kind that we did.

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    Re: ISIS in Iraq seizes control of Saddam Husseinís chemical weapons facility

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    ISIS in Iraq seizes control of Saddam Hussein’s chemical weapons facility | BARE NAKED ISLAM

    WSJ Sunni extremists in Iraq have occupied what was once Saddam Hussein’s premier chemical-weapons production facility, a complex that still contains a stockpile of old weapons, State Department and other U.S. government officials said. The capture of the chemical-weapon stockpile by the forces of the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham, known as ISIS or ISIL, the militant group that is seizing territory in the country, has grabbed the attention of the U.S.

    "We remain concerned about the seizure of any military site by the ISIL,” Jen Psaki, the State Department spokeswoman, said in a written statement. “We do not believe that the complex contains CW materials of military value and it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to safely move the materials.”

    The takeover underscores the chaos gripping Iraq and the possibility that the growing Sunni rebellion could further destabilize the Middle East. Not lost on U.S. government and military officials is the irony that the latest chapter in a war designed to strip Iraq of chemical weapons could see radical Sunni extremists take control of that same stockpile.

    During the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980s, Hussein used the Muthanna complex to make chemical weapons, including sarin, mustard gas, and VX (a nerve agent), according the Iraq Study Group, which conducted the hunt for weapons of mass destruction in the aftermath of the war. The Iraq Study group did find chemical munitions at Muthanna but determined that inspections by United Nations Special Commission, or Unscom, had ensured the facility was dismantled and remaining chemical stocks militarily useless and sealed in bunkers.

    snip


    CHEMICAL WEAPONS?? I was assured by scores of Leftists that there were no CW.
    Since we went in under the guise of WMD, if for real military chemical weapons had been in Iraq, we would have seized them. But it's likely much ado about nothing.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: ISIS in Iraq seizes control of Saddam Husseinís chemical weapons facility

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    It would make a mess, for sure.

    What kind of problems would that cause for me here in beautiful northern New Jersey?

    Not a one.

    Kinda hard for me to care about this.
    Which part of NJ is beautiful? Even the official NJ state botanical gardens are pedestrian and unimpressive.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #236
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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    You do realize these weapons are obsolete. They no longer work! They are useless.
    They are useless as artillery rounds. Would you stand in a room with one and open it?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The funny thing is - we actually tracked that as it occurred. Then we overran their positions and they had the special arty units all set up to fire the shells that never came....
    Right, they didn't have any chemical weapons. Hard to fire what you don't have.

    A) The Iraq War was "sold" (argued for) on a lot more than just WMD.
    B) however,
    True but irrelevant. No WMD, and no war. It's that simple. That we also had other reasons, that no one but foreign policy gearheads cared about, is of no consequence.

    Yeah. We got that intel from the Germans, who had a source who had "worked" those facilities. We asked to talk to him ourselves so we could put him to the test (lie detector, human interrogation with control questions, etc), and the Germans told us he was virulently anti-American and so we couldn't talk to him. That turned out later to be a lie - no idea why they did that.
    I suppose the reason that might matter is with the question, "Did Bush and Co. 'lie' or were they just tragically wrong." I'm agnostic on that, and I don't think it matters.

    Seems to me, based on the evidence, the the decision was more,

    1) OK, we want to invade Iraq, now how can we sell this to the public? And not,
    2) Iraq has this pile of WMD that pose a risk to the U.S. so should we invade Iraq to keep Amurka safe from terrism? The clearest evidence for this is they embraced ALL the evidence for WMD, and dismissed all the evidence that they were all gone for practical purposes.

    So I think they believed they'd find WMD, and the only reason it mattered to anyone who actually mattered was the finding of them would justify the war that was engaged for all kinds of reasons OTHER THAN WMD.

    So they didn't 'lie' about WMD, the powers (and I'm sure MANY leading democrats were in this group) just lied about why we went to war.

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    Re: ISIS in Iraq seizes control of Saddam Husseinís chemical weapons facility

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Which part of NJ is beautiful? Even the official NJ state botanical gardens are pedestrian and unimpressive.
    I think there are plenty of parts of NJ that are awesome.

    Island Beach State Park and any number of other beaches - especially at night during a "meteor shower" or a luminescent tide, Cape May, High Point, Tillman's Ravine, plenty of places along the Delaware, the wineries in Sussex County, Assunpink, Mad Horse Creek/Abbot's Meadow, Oyster Creek, Little Egg Harbor, dozens of spots in the pinelands...

    Hell, I can just keep going and going and going and I haven't even considered scenic towns yet

    Understand, I also think there are parts of NJ that would be in contention for asshole of the world.

    If you're in New Jersey and can't find anything that appeals to you, then sucks to be you I guess.

    I agree about Ringwood, it's not Allerton Gardens by any stretch, but I like to take my kid there to ride his bike.
    ďNow it is not good for the Christianís health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: ďA Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.Ē

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    Re: ISIS in Iraq seizes control of Saddam Husseinís chemical weapons facility

    I live in Sussex, it's mostly just the MidWest. Upstate New York is fantastic, though. And Vermont....damn does that place rock. The awesome stick just happened to miss NJ is all. Too bad the Property Tax stick didn't follow suit.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #240
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    Re: ISIS in Iraq seizes control of Saddam Husseinís chemical weapons facility

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    It would make a mess, for sure.

    What kind of problems would that cause for me here in beautiful northern New Jersey?

    Not a one.

    Kinda hard for me to care about this.
    Broken windows principle of law enforcement.

    Violence and chaos in one part of the world causes more in other parts as time goes on.

    Anyone that thinks violence around the world won't eventually cause problems on U.S. territory are hiding their heads in the sand.

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