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Thread: ISIS in Iraq seizes control of Saddam Husseinís chemical weapons facility

  1. #161
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    re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayton3 View Post
    Once again, they were supposed to have NONE. As in ZERO. And ZERO capacity to build them.
    If they are "old" that most likely means dating back from before the first Gulf War.
    That's pretty damn old.
    If they are so contaminated and so unstable that there is very good likelihood that the only people to be harmed are the ones futzing around with them,
    then they are ineffective and might have been ineffective for quite some time.
    So that would mean that there are, in effect, ZERO, which also rules out the possibility of any capacity to build them too.

    The general consensus was that the THREAT was over-sold, over-estimated and overplayed by the Bush administration, but even barring that, we still go
    right back to the discovery of evidence that points to the fact that Bush had been planning the invasion of Iraq long before 9/11/2001, which renders the
    entire WMD/Mushroom Cloud/Curveball hypothesis moot anyway.

    The prezzy-dint had a hard-on for Saddam Hussein no matter what...WMD's or no WMD's, 9/11 or no 9/11, gassed his own people or handed out smores.
    Everyone in that administration knew that they would never ever be able to sell an Iraq invasion on the pretext of "getting revenge for Dad" so they had to have something, anything, anything at all, or several somethings, or a whole lotta somethings made outta nothing, as long as it could be pimped out and presented as looking like something.

    So no matter how this is sliced and diced, in the end this "Aaaaa-HAAAA!" moment doesn't really matter.
    Well, ACTUALLY that's not exactly true come to think of it because in the end it DOES matter because it's an "Aaaaa-HAAAA!!" moment which will sell very well on
    Fox News, where actual facts and details don't matter.

    Just scream "Aaaaaa-HAAAAAA!!!" and you got em right where you want em, the Two-Minutes Hate in full throated crescendo, swell and sforzando.

    rumsfeld saddam.jpg
    If I didn't respond to your diatribe, it's possible you may have
    engaged in revisionism or broad sweeping generalizations.
    I don't have time for either, and you're probably on my IGNORE list.

  2. #162
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    re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I don't know who Mail Online is, but I'm not buying it.
    Do we need to cough up the receipts too?

    rumsfeld saddam.jpg
    If I didn't respond to your diatribe, it's possible you may have
    engaged in revisionism or broad sweeping generalizations.
    I don't have time for either, and you're probably on my IGNORE list.

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    re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by Utility Man View Post
    So Bush Inc tried to eliminate the threat of WMDs and failed miserably. Doesn't surprise me at all.

    Bush hasn't been president since 2008.... Do you understand that? Now Obama like the ****ing retard he is pulls out of Iraq and now it has gone to ****.

    This is what you get when you have democrats running the show - ****.... lousy economy and world anarchy....

    But of course my "liberal" generation just had to show the world they weren't racists... Whats next Billary???

    Funny part is those who elected this ****ing peon are the least informed people in the United States...

    Life under Obama and many others has been MISERABLE.....If this ****ing government was regulated to the same rules as Wall Street EVERY POLITICIAN would be going to prison - yet the federal government does whatever the **** they want...

    Wait until libertarians/Tea Party take control because people WILL be held accountable - not censures but PRISON....

  4. #164
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    re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Yes, weapons grade CBR Munitions have to be properly maintained, stored and the like. Yes, they lose "Viability" as military weapons.

    Now, get a crate of old Chemical Weapons, put in on a ship... say one bound for NY Harbor, then detonate it. Sure, it wouldn't have the same effect as if it were lobbed from Artillery fire or launched from the crude scud's Saddam had.

    I'm sure that'd be a small consolation to the people of NY that the terrorist used old, less effective chemicals.

    (P.S. You are free to insert any target civilian city... Paris, London, Tel Aviv...)
    How many rogue states are there right now, post Saddam?
    How many are there with the funding needed for such an operation?
    Who normally monitors ocean going vessels and does risk assessment like this on a regular basis?

    See, the point I am attempting to make is, if you or anyone thinks that a multi-trillion dollar invasion, war and occupation
    has removed that threat, or removed it at ANY TIME in the last fifteen, twenty or even thirty years, they're dreaming.

    They also have little or no knowledge of how we secure our ports and harbors.
    Not saying that we do a sterling job of that either, I am saying that the author of such a statment knows absolutely nothing about how it is done.

    In fact, it almost sounds word for word like it was lifted directly from a Charles Krauthammer diatribe.
    If I didn't respond to your diatribe, it's possible you may have
    engaged in revisionism or broad sweeping generalizations.
    I don't have time for either, and you're probably on my IGNORE list.

  5. #165
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    re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    None - I'm sorry if I spoke awkwardly there - they had the materials necessary. They had not constructed any.

    We thought Iraq had an ongoing production program - they didn't. They probably would have stood one back up if we'd decided well what the hell and dropped pressure, but as it was, Iraq was generally in "freeze" mode on it's WMD's. The extent to which Saddam was fully aware of that is debatable, but it seems he did think he had a greater capability than he did.
    Some have even gone so far as to state that he wanted everyone ELSE to also think he had a greater capability than he did, and that in the end it turned out that he apparently did too good of a job convincing some in the Bush administration who had been looking for a justification.
    Like two lonely hearts, they found each other and that was the blind date from Hell.
    If I didn't respond to your diatribe, it's possible you may have
    engaged in revisionism or broad sweeping generalizations.
    I don't have time for either, and you're probably on my IGNORE list.

  6. #166
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    re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    If they are "old" that most likely means dating back from before the first Gulf War.
    That's pretty damn old.
    If they are so contaminated and so unstable that there is very good likelihood that the only people to be harmed are the ones futzing around with them,
    then they are ineffective and might have been ineffective for quite some time.
    So that would mean that there are, in effect, ZERO, which also rules out the possibility of any capacity to build them too.

    The general consensus was that the THREAT was over-sold, over-estimated and overplayed by the Bush administration, but even barring that, we still go
    right back to the discovery of evidence that points to the fact that Bush had been planning the invasion of Iraq long before 9/11/2001, which renders the
    entire WMD/Mushroom Cloud/Curveball hypothesis moot anyway.

    The prezzy-dint had a hard-on for Saddam Hussein no matter what...WMD's or no WMD's, 9/11 or no 9/11, gassed his own people or handed out smores.
    Everyone in that administration knew that they would never ever be able to sell an Iraq invasion on the pretext of "getting revenge for Dad" so they had to have something, anything, anything at all, or several somethings, or a whole lotta somethings made outta nothing, as long as it could be pimped out and presented as looking like something.

    So no matter how this is sliced and diced, in the end this "Aaaaa-HAAAA!" moment doesn't really matter.
    Well, ACTUALLY that's not exactly true come to think of it because in the end it DOES matter because it's an "Aaaaa-HAAAA!!" moment which will sell very well on
    Fox News, where actual facts and details don't matter.

    Just scream "Aaaaaa-HAAAAAA!!!" and you got em right where you want em, the Two-Minutes Hate in full throated crescendo, swell and sforzando.

    rumsfeld saddam.jpg
    I agree with you but that still doesn't change the fact Saddam was a ****ing ruthless nut that abused his people.... Weather or not it was vendetta or not is absolutely irrelevant to me - it was nice to see evil wiped off this earth and now this **** breaks out and we all know Obama will do absolutely nothing about it.

    I don't know who is worse Obama, our Congress or Saddam??

    I don't know why those in the ME and Africa just cant ****ing behave????? that's the best question - of course racist to progressives.

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    re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant


  8. #168
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    re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Apparently you dont understand that these weapons are DISMANTLED and UNUSABLE.
    In 2014? Hopefully yes. 10 years ago - much less so. Which we know now because one of them was used against us as an improvised explosive device with a gas element.

    Now, could they be fired through artillery tubes? Probably not. That doesn't stop them from being usable, however, as we found out. Allow the National Ground Intelligence Center Commander to elucidate:

    he 500 munitions discovered throughout Iraq since 2003 and discussed in a National Ground Intelligence Center report meet the criteria of weapons of mass destruction, the center's commander said here today.

    "These are chemical weapons as defined under the Chemical Weapons Convention, and yes ... they do constitute weapons of mass destruction," Army Col. John Chu told the House Armed Services Committee....

    The munitions found contain sarin and mustard gases, Army Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, said. Sarin attacks the neurological system and is potentially lethal.

    "Mustard is a blister agent (that) actually produces burning of any area (where) an individual may come in contact with the agent," he said. It also is potentially fatal if it gets into a person's lungs.
    The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, Chu added.

    While that's reassuring, the agent remaining in the weapons would be very valuable to terrorists and insurgents, Maples said. "We're talking chemical agents here that could be packaged in a different format and have a great effect," he said, referencing the sarin-gas attack on a Japanese subway in the mid-1990s.

    This is true even considering any degradation of the chemical agents that may have occurred, Chu said. It's not known exactly how sarin breaks down, but no matter how degraded the agent is, it's still toxic.

    "Regardless of (how much material in the weapon is actually chemical agent), any remaining agent is toxic," he said. "Anything above zero (percent agent) would prove to be toxic...

    Though about 500 chemical weapons - the exact number has not been released publicly - have been found, Maples said he doesn't believe Iraq is a "WMD-free zone."

    "I do believe the former regime did a very poor job of accountability of munitions, and certainly did not document the destruction of munitions," he said. "The recovery program goes on, and I do not believe we have found all the weapons."

    The Defense Intelligence Agency director said locating and disposing of chemical weapons in Iraq is one of the most important tasks servicemembers in the country perform....

    The argument that no WMD were found except for the ones that we found, but that they don't count, is a very poor argument.

  9. #169
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    re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    90% were usable - the yellow cake needed to be enriched but other than that the guy had the capabilities to make nuclear weapons.. Oh not to mention they found the technology to enrich yellow cake so.....

    I'm not the biggest Bush fan but the guy stopped something really bad from happening here.
    So far, out of all the reading I've done here, it looks like few if any have the slightest knowledge of what yellowcake really is,
    what it's risk factor is or what its potential dangers are.
    Did I hallucinate or did someone mention pulling into a harbor with a dirty bomb made of yellowcake?
    So far back I wonder if I could find it now.

    Did someone actually utter that? Please tell me that they didn't.
    If I WASN'T hallucinating, then I would like a rough description of how such a yellowcake dirty bomb would be constructed, or how it would be deployed, or
    how it would be expected to work. Any one or all three, and I am not interested in accurate engineering descriptions, just a general theory will do fine.
    If I didn't respond to your diatribe, it's possible you may have
    engaged in revisionism or broad sweeping generalizations.
    I don't have time for either, and you're probably on my IGNORE list.

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    re: ISIL seizes Saddam's chemical weapons plant

    If I had executive power and was in charge of the Military I would tell these little ****s to get their act together or they will be severely bombed - and I mean severe.

    Basically "behave or you're all Martyrs."

    What else can you do?

    Who will defend them? who will throw bombs back? no one.... Iran? they would probably want to say out of this.

    After I got done wiping **** off the earth "Palestine" would be too afraid to attack Israel.

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