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Thread: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Politicians trying to pretend that this is either the best way to reduce climate change or the best way to fund roads are pathetic. Taxes on consumption are going to do much better at reinforcing poverty than at reducing climate change. What needs to be done is a nationalization of non-renewable energies so that they can be quickly phased out. In the meantime, prices need to kept at a reasonable rate. A cap on carbon emissions and a carbon tax is where the taxation of pollution needs to be focused on. I realize that a gas tax has a purpose of discouraging driving too much to reduce carbon emissions, but what is a lower-income person who must commute to work supposed to do in this situation? Unless we have a nationwide free public transit system, the gas tax will continue to negatively affect the poor.

    Of course, the oil industry would assassinate someone before they let this happen.

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    I'd like to see gas cost $7.00+ per gallon. I can afford it, and it will cut down on the douchebags out there driving around.

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    It's always fair when the users of the service pay for it.

    Roads have to be maintained. Your $300 million figure is not an avoidable expense. It has to be paid or the roads fall apart. The only real question is how to pay for it. As I've stated it only makes sense to charge the users of the roads for their upkeep. Why should some guy who doesn't own a car pay to maintain roads that you use? Yes he buys stuff that is shipped by trucks but the trucking company can pass those costs on to him by raising their fees.

    Further it makes sense to tie the cost to how much people drive and the types of vehicles they drive. After all a small 4 cylinder car that gets driven 1000 miles a year to and from a local commuter rail station does not cause nearly as much wear and tear on roads as an 18 wheeler driven a couple hundred thousand miles a year. That means the fairest way to apportion costs has to be tied to fuel consumption - as an approximation of both vehicle size and miles driven - or some formula based on mileage driven and gross weight.

    As to the idea that people drive less, I don't have any stats but in my suburb I haven't seen any real decrease in traffic as the price of gas has gone from $1.00 a gallon to $4.00.
    People still need to get to work, to the market etc and still take vacations. And if driving goes down so what? That leads to less wear on the roads and lowers the cost of upkeep. And less pollution, more people walking or biking. All good things.
    stats in your suburb are irrelevant.

    they are as a truck uses way more fuel for less millage than a car, but increasing the bottom line is a tax on the average American and the poor which Obama opposes and said he wouldn't raise.
    gas prices are already going to go higher just do to market speculation at this point. we don't need them going even higher because 2 guys in government think that they need more and more and more.

    if they would appropriate their money on projects on a year basis then they would have the money to fix things.

    so I have 20b dollars for the transportation budget then I select the number of projects up to 20b and get them done the next year the same thing.
    I focus on critical things first like bridges since people can die from a bad bridge.

    so if I can fix 20 or 30 bridges for 20b dollars then I will do it.

    high fuel prices are not good for the economy in fact they are the direct opposite.

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    stats in your suburb are irrelevant.

    they are as a truck uses way more fuel for less millage than a car, but increasing the bottom line is a tax on the average American and the poor which Obama opposes and said he wouldn't raise.
    gas prices are already going to go higher just do to market speculation at this point. we don't need them going even higher because 2 guys in government think that they need more and more and more.

    if they would appropriate their money on projects on a year basis then they would have the money to fix things.

    so I have 20b dollars for the transportation budget then I select the number of projects up to 20b and get them done the next year the same thing.
    I focus on critical things first like bridges since people can die from a bad bridge.

    so if I can fix 20 or 30 bridges for 20b dollars then I will do it.

    high fuel prices are not good for the economy in fact they are the direct opposite.
    My observations in the area where I live are just as valid - or invalid - as your supposition that people drive less when gas prices go up.

    Not that it matters, it's irrelevant to my argument.

    So your argument is the money isn't needed? That the government has the funds to pay for road repairs but is increasing gas taxes just because they want more tax revenues? You might be right. I have no idea. But again it isn't what I'm arguing. What I'm saying is simply that the people who use the roads and who derive benefit from them should pay for them. That's all. If that means higher gas prices well that's just the cost of driving. Why should some guy who doesn't own a car subsidize you?
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    no they go into the general fund,and have nothing to do with budgets directly,unless their budget is increase,such a tax would only add to overall revenue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Those who use, and often profit from the use, of our roads and related infrastructure should pay for it. I would like to see a gas tax high enough to offset all the current subsidies for drivers. Gas taxes and car registration should pay for all road, bridge etc. maintenance, traffic and parking enforcement and mitigate the damage from air pollution, noise, lost land etc. It should also partially offset the cost of public transit, which helps make the roads more usable and efficient by reducing traffic. That would allow reductions in other types of taxes. It will increase the cost of goods, but the increase is from the end of a tax payer subsidy, which should reduce other taxes. This scheme might require a break for low income people in low density areas forced to commute by automobile.
    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I am very much against putting anything in the general fund. I don't mind paying the extra 12 cents but I want it to go to roads and infrastructure, not in any general fund for those idiot politicians to spend it to buy votes for them. I wish more taxes that are collect were for specific use and not for any general fund. If those in Washington were more frugal with taxpayer money, perhaps I would view this differently. But they are not and spend it like the money doesn't belong to them. Well, I guess it doesn't, it belongs to those who pay the taxes, no one else. So if by designating that this money can only be spent on what it was collected for is the only way to keep things half way decent in Washington.
    this tax does NOT go into the general fund. they have actually had to use money from the general fund in order to keep the fund that the gas tax supports solvent.
    Go Vols

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by mtm1963 View Post
    this tax does NOT go into the general fund. they have actually had to use money from the general fund in order to keep the fund that the gas tax supports solvent.
    The post I was replying to said this tax should all go into the general fund. I am opposed to that and hence my reply to it.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    The post I was replying to said this tax should all go into the general fund. I am opposed to that and hence my reply to it.
    my misunderstanding.
    Go Vols

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Yes, lets raise taxes on the very life blood of the economy. Brilliant idea. Here is a better one though, how about you don't tax energy.

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Yes, lets raise taxes on the very life blood of the economy. Brilliant idea. Here is a better one though, how about you don't tax energy.
    So I have to ask how you propose to pay for roads?
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by TitusAndronicus View Post
    Roads are designed to operate at a loss, requiring permanent operational subsidies, after receiving massive subsidies to get them initially established.

    To illustrate this, here's a diagram for Wisconsin from 2004 to 2008. User fees made up just 33.3% of the revenue needed to maintain and build roads.

    Attachment 67168420
    What exactly does the government do that isn't designed to operate at a loss? I can think of maybe two things and after that I'm completely lost.

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