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Thread: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    not at all--especially coming from Sen. Corker, coming from Tennessee

    I would think Libertarians would want to pay for necessary road/rail/plane/waterway/energy grid/etc. improvements.
    Versus 20 of 28 deficits from GOP Presidents before Obama .
    yes, Libertarians, as opposed to Democrats and Republicans, actually pay for their stuff... that's a good observation.
    of course, we probably would not have gone into debt over our head either, but that's neither here nor there.... no need t orub the horrible record of your party and the GOP in your face all the time

    all my life i've heard politicians yammering about bad roads, bad this , bad that... so they raise a tax as a solution.
    and we still have bad roads, bad this, and bad that... and higher taxes.

    this is the stuff I expect of the 2 major parties... no results, but more money taken....and we'll still drive deeper and deeper in debt.
    SSDD.


    like I said... pass the tax,i'm fine with it... I can afford it... and i'm ok with excise taxes
    just don't start bitching about the plight of the poor working man...reachin' in his wallet while you pretend to support him just ain't cool.

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    as gas goes up people slow down on their driving.
    they don't go out as much they stay in it creates a drag on the economy.

    the average gas price is about 6 cents higher. that 6 cents has cost the American economy 150m dollars. so theoretically a 12 cent increase would cost the American economy 300m dollars possibly.

    that is 300m dollars that people and businesses don't have to spend.

    it's always fair when it is someone else's money. I think we should look at the transportation budget and see what they are spending their money on. how many people are employeed and whether or not we can cut back on spending within the department itself and transfer those funds to projects.

    this is also what happens when people drive more efficient cars. they buy less gas which means less tax revenue.
    It's always fair when the users of the service pay for it.

    Roads have to be maintained. Your $300 million figure is not an avoidable expense. It has to be paid or the roads fall apart. The only real question is how to pay for it. As I've stated it only makes sense to charge the users of the roads for their upkeep. Why should some guy who doesn't own a car pay to maintain roads that you use? Yes he buys stuff that is shipped by trucks but the trucking company can pass those costs on to him by raising their fees.

    Further it makes sense to tie the cost to how much people drive and the types of vehicles they drive. After all a small 4 cylinder car that gets driven 1000 miles a year to and from a local commuter rail station does not cause nearly as much wear and tear on roads as an 18 wheeler driven a couple hundred thousand miles a year. That means the fairest way to apportion costs has to be tied to fuel consumption - as an approximation of both vehicle size and miles driven - or some formula based on mileage driven and gross weight.

    As to the idea that people drive less, I don't have any stats but in my suburb I haven't seen any real decrease in traffic as the price of gas has gone from $1.00 a gallon to $4.00.
    People still need to get to work, to the market etc and still take vacations. And if driving goes down so what? That leads to less wear on the roads and lowers the cost of upkeep. And less pollution, more people walking or biking. All good things.
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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    ok. then would you support those who use mass transit (bus,train,light rail) should pay for it. Lets say a tax on the ticket high enough to offset all subsidies the system recieves.

    My point, if you want those who use the road to pay for using the roads, then users of mass transit should pay through a user tax on the ticket all costs associated with the operating and maintenance. I know in Phoenix the ticket price for buses or light rail does not even come close to cover the expense. General tax dollars are used to make up the deficit.
    I would, even though as a user of commuter rail my costs would go up significantly. It isn't, however, as simple as that. There are about 125,000 people who ride the Long Island Railroad every day. The infrastructure could not handle if a significant fraction of those people started driving every day. There simple isn't enough road for tens of thousands of more cars. I'd argue that there's a good possibility subsidizing rail to keep ridership up may actually be a cheaper alternative to building more roads or widening existing ones or letting people just sit in traffic longer.
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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    ok. then would you support those who use mass transit (bus,train,light rail) should pay for it. Lets say a tax on the ticket high enough to offset all subsidies the system recieves.

    My point, if you want those who use the road to pay for using the roads, then users of mass transit should pay through a user tax on the ticket all costs associated with the operating and maintenance. I know in Phoenix the ticket price for buses or light rail does not even come close to cover the expense. General tax dollars are used to make up the deficit.
    Those who use mass transit reduce traffic congestion and reduce pollution and the demand for new roads. Mass transit use should be subsidized by drivers via a gas tax.

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Those who use mass transit reduce traffic congestion and reduce pollution and the demand for new roads. Mass transit use should be subsidized by drivers via a gas tax.
    nope.
    I was replying to the poster who stated those who drive should basically pay for the roads. Ok.
    My position is then those who use mass transit should pay for its expansion and upkeep. Why should a driver get hit twice.
    Mass transit needs to pay its way. As should those who use the roads.

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    ..Why should a driver get hit twice.
    Mass transit needs to pay its way. As should those who use the roads.
    Drivers should subsidize mass transit because without it there would be much more traffic and/or greater costs for expanding or building the infrastructure to handle the extra traffic.

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Drivers should subsidize mass transit because without it there would be much more traffic and/or greater costs for expanding or building the infrastructure to handle the extra traffic.
    Disagree.
    Everyone should pay their fair share.

    your not trying to say that mass transit has know costs? Don't busses use roads?

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Which is why the asshole liar we have as POTUS now is once again on my ****list. He promised during campaign his first priority would be addressing our failing infrastructure. Instead of the Obamacare nightmare he could have actually kept one of his promises.
    So you wanted him to raise gas taxes sooner, got it.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Buying more fuel efficient cars and using mass transit instead of driving are good things. We need to use less and less gasoline but still need the roads and bridges maintained. How else but by raising taxes? The poor don't usually have cars.
    This is pretty naive. The poor don't have cars? What about those who don't live in a city? Public transport doesn't exist everywhere.

    Another note, this tax will most likely go to anything but the roads.

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy
    "Which is why the asshole liar we have as POTUS now is once again on my ****list. He promised during campaign his first priority would be addressing our failing infrastructure. Instead of the Obamacare nightmare he could have actually kept one of his promises.The administration's initial stimulus plan, the $787 billion package passed in February 2009, was designed to save or create about 4 million jobs."


    "According to some third-party estimates, the White House may have come close to hitting that target, especially if you factor in the administration's bailout of the auto industry.

    But the job losses in late 2008 and early 2009 ended up being much worse than expected. A total of 3.8 million jobs were lost from December 2008 through April 2009, an average of just over 750,000 a month.

    By the time the job losses stopped a year after Obama took office, the Great Recession had cost the economy 8.8 million jobs, and the unemployment rate was stuck in the 9% to 10% range.

    So even if estimates of more than 4 million jobs saved or created was correct, it was not nearly enough to get the job market back on track.
    Dr. Mr. President: Business owners' jobs ideas

    And many of the jobs created or saved through earlier efforts have now come to an end. Most of the public works projects, such as road repavings and bridge repairs, have been completed. Money given to states to keep teachers, fire fighters and police on the job has run out.

    ....The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates that the parts of the program that got the most criticism -- actual spending on projects and aid packages -- was the most effective in creating jobs.... the CBO estimates that at least 1.4 million jobs were created and saved by the direct spending alone, and that as many as 3.6 million jobs were produced while stimulus funds were being spent.

    A separate study by Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody's Analytics and an advisor to John McCain's presidential campaign, and Alan Blinder, a former Federal Reserve vice chairman and advisor to President Clinton, estimates that the stimulus act created about 2.7 million jobs. But the impact of stimulus has waned since last year.

    "Stimulus is no longer playing a major role, but it was never intended to be the source of long-term growth," said Zandi. "It was supposed to fill a hole till the private sector stepped in."

    And Zandi argues that the private sector is hiring again. He pointed out that businesses have added 2.4 million jobs since March 2010....."

    Stimulus added jobs, just not enough - Sep. 8, 2011

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