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Thread: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Also urban mass transit and goofy trains to nowhere nonsense. These mass transit systems are designed to operate at a loss, requiring permanent operational subsidies, after receiving massive subsidies to get them initially established.
    Roads are designed to operate at a loss, requiring permanent operational subsidies, after receiving massive subsidies to get them initially established.

    To illustrate this, here's a diagram for Wisconsin from 2004 to 2008. User fees made up just 33.3% of the revenue needed to maintain and build roads.

    whopays1.jpg

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Two United States Senators from different parties wanting to do this--first time since 1993.
    A bi-partisan approach we've all been asking for--OMG.
    A transportation bill long overdue.

    I didn't mind paying eight dollars total in two tolls on I-44 in Oklahoma from Joplin to Oklahoma City, GOP country.
    I believe in tolls and taxes, since I use the interstates and local roads .
    you didn't have to tell me that you support regressive taxes and fees that disproportionately impact the poor , elderly, and disadvantaged....I already knew that about you.

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    The word of the day is INFLATION.

    The gas tax was set at 18.4c per gallon in 1993. Note this is a cent value, not a percentage. It does not stay even with inflation. Every year the purchasing power of the tax on a gallon of gas decreases. In other words, the gas tax naturally decreases every year.

    These senators are considering increasing the tax by 12 cents to 30.4 cents in today's dollars. How does this compare to 18.4 1993-cents? Using this inflation calculator you can check and see that 30.4 cents in 2013 is equal to 18.53 cents in 1993. From 1993 to 2014 this is a tax increase of $0.0013 per gallon in 1993-dollars.

    http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc....014&year2=1993
    Last edited by TitusAndronicus; 06-18-14 at 09:58 PM.

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by TitusAndronicus View Post
    Roads are designed to operate at a loss, requiring permanent operational subsidies, after receiving massive subsidies to get them initially established.

    To illustrate this, here's a diagram for Wisconsin from 2004 to 2008. User fees made up just 33.3% of the revenue needed to maintain and build roads.

    whopays1.jpg
    Answer this simple question - do light rail, bus and subway users pay motor fuel taxes?

    While I agree that 100% of road construction and maintenance costs are not funded by user fees they are more funded by them than most public transit systems are. My point is that we are being told that motor fuel taxes must be raised in order to maintain roads yet an ever increasing portion of those funds are being diverted to other uses.

    I question your assertion that only 1/3 of funds to build/maintain roads come from user fees.

    http://taxfoundation.org/article/gas...-road-spending

    Meanwhile, transit fares cover 21 percent of costs nationwide, indicating that the difference in subsidies for roads and transit is not as great as it’s often made out to be. (Though in absolute terms, there is a big difference: The total subsidy for roads dwarfs the total subsidy for transit.)
    http://usa.streetsblog.org/2013/01/2...road-spending/
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-18-14 at 10:13 PM.
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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by mtm1963 View Post
    for the purpose of tax, road infrastructure.
    no they go into the general fund,and have nothing to do with budgets directly,unless their budget is increase,such a tax would only add to overall revenue.
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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by mtm1963 View Post
    i am not against the tax increase on gas because its needed but what we need to do is to have all tax dollars go into the general fund to pay for the needs of the country in stead of having a tax to fund this or that(SS and medicare are other examples)...
    Those who use, and often profit from the use, of our roads and related infrastructure should pay for it. I would like to see a gas tax high enough to offset all the current subsidies for drivers. Gas taxes and car registration should pay for all road, bridge etc. maintenance, traffic and parking enforcement and mitigate the damage from air pollution, noise, lost land etc. It should also partially offset the cost of public transit, which helps make the roads more usable and efficient by reducing traffic. That would allow reductions in other types of taxes. It will increase the cost of goods, but the increase is from the end of a tax payer subsidy, which should reduce other taxes. This scheme might require a break for low income people in low density areas forced to commute by automobile.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 06-18-14 at 10:16 PM.

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by mtm1963 View Post
    i am not against the tax increase on gas because its needed but what we need to do is to have all tax dollars go into the general fund to pay for the needs of the country in stead of having a tax to fund this or that(SS and medicare are other examples).

    ---------

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Two senators unveiled a bipartisan plan Wednesday to raise federal gasoline and diesel taxes for the first time in more than two decades, pitching the proposal as a solution to Congress' struggle to pay for highway and transit programs.

    The plan offered by Sens. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., and Bob Corker, R-Tenn., would raise the 18.4-cents-a-gallon federal gas tax and 24.4-cents-a- gallon diesel tax by 12 cents each over the next two years, and then index the taxes to keep pace with inflation.

    Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase
    I am very much against putting anything in the general fund. I don't mind paying the extra 12 cents but I want it to go to roads and infrastructure, not in any general fund for those idiot politicians to spend it to buy votes for them. I wish more taxes that are collect were for specific use and not for any general fund. If those in Washington were more frugal with taxpayer money, perhaps I would view this differently. But they are not and spend it like the money doesn't belong to them. Well, I guess it doesn't, it belongs to those who pay the taxes, no one else. So if by designating that this money can only be spent on what it was collected for is the only way to keep things half way decent in Washington.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Those who use, and often profit from the use, of our roads and related infrastructure should pay for it. I would like to see a gas tax high enough to offset all the current subsidies for drivers. Gas taxes and car registration should pay for all road, bridge etc. maintenance, traffic and parking enforcement and mitigate the damage from air pollution, noise, lost land etc. It should also partially offset the cost of public transit, which helps make the roads more usable and efficient by reducing traffic. That would allow reductions in other types of taxes. It will increase the cost of goods, but the increase is from the end of a tax payer subsidy, which should reduce other taxes. This scheme might require a break for low income people in low density areas forced to commute by automobile.
    ok. then would you support those who use mass transit (bus,train,light rail) should pay for it. Lets say a tax on the ticket high enough to offset all subsidies the system recieves.

    My point, if you want those who use the road to pay for using the roads, then users of mass transit should pay through a user tax on the ticket all costs associated with the operating and maintenance. I know in Phoenix the ticket price for buses or light rail does not even come close to cover the expense. General tax dollars are used to make up the deficit.

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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    not at all--especially coming from Sen. Corker, coming from Tennessee and maybe a TEA-primary in 2016.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    you didn't have to tell me that you support regressive taxes and fees that disproportionately
    impact the poor , elderly, and disadvantaged....I already knew that about you.
    I would think Libertarians would want to pay for necessary road/rail/plane/waterway/energy grid/etc. improvements.
    Versus 20 of 28 deficits from GOP Presidents before Obama .
    Last edited by NIMBY; 06-18-14 at 11:12 PM.
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    Re: Senators propose 12-cent gas tax increase

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Answer this simple question - do light rail, bus and subway users pay motor fuel taxes?

    While I agree that 100% of road construction and maintenance costs are not funded by user fees they are more funded by them than most public transit systems are. My point is that we are being told that motor fuel taxes must be raised in order to maintain roads yet an ever increasing portion of those funds are being diverted to other uses.

    I question your assertion that only 1/3 of funds to build/maintain roads come from user fees.
    I've seen various figures for the user fee component, ranging as high as 65%. I'm sure it depends on the entity/state. This is just from Wisconsin, and I used it as an example purely for the graphic. I agree that your 51% figure is more in line with a majority of the country. But the 49% not paid by users dwarfs the user fee that is devoted to transit. Transit users may not pay the gas tax, but gas tax payers do earn benefit from transit in the form of reduced congestion (thus increasing a driver's mpg).

    The biggest diversion of money from road construction/maintenance is not transit (by a long shot) but inflation. The 12 cent increase is meant to counter the de facto tax break we've been experiencing since the 18.4 cent tax was implemented in 1993. The post office is not allowed to increase the price of stamps more than inflation, so it increases the prices by a penny or two every year or so. But the gas tax hasn't been increased to match inflation since 1993. And 30.4 cents today is equal to 18.53 cents in 1993 (and will be lower by the time it is implemented).

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