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Thread: Gallup: Majority Says Obama Not ‘Honest and Trustworthy’[W:202]

  1. #181
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    Re: Gallup: Majority Says Obama Not ‘Honest and Trustworthy’

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Psychotherapist.

    Interesting! You must have a field day with this board.
    Generally CC and myself don't agree on much politically, but he is a good guy that definitely earned my respect.

    A few years back he thought that the tone of my posts had changed and become more angry and combative than what he had come to expect, so he put politics aside and went out of his way to ask if something was bothering me and if everything was OK in my personal life.... It's a gesture I won't soon forget.

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    Re: Gallup: Majority Says Obama Not ‘Honest and Trustworthy’

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Generally CC and myself don't agree on much politically, but he is a good guy that definitely earned my respect.

    A few years back he thought that the tone of my posts had changed and become more angry and combative than what he had come to expect, so he put politics aside and went out of his way to ask if something was bothering me and if everything was OK in my personal life.... It's a gesture I won't soon forget.
    I appreciate that he took the time to answer my question about an example. All of us here have ideas about what's right and wrong with the ACA, and I'm always interested in the experiences of someone who actually lives medical stuff day in and day out.

    I don't think I agree with him politically generally speaking either but from the posts of his that I read, he's not inclined towards radical leftism, and for that he also has my respect.

  3. #183
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    Re: Gallup: Majority Says Obama Not ‘Honest and Trustworthy’

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    People, this is what partisan blinders does to someone. If you can't see that the right and the left suck equally, then the problem is yours, not anyone elses.
    Yeah you voted for Obama, but my hands are clean... Nice try, you try to defend him by saying both sides are bad. But that don't work with me, you picked Obama and you voted for an idiot.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

  4. #184
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    Re: Gallup: Majority Says Obama Not ‘Honest and Trustworthy’

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Huh? We're talking about one specific lie in the last 15 pages or so. But there are plenty of others.

    How about when he said Fast and Furious began under Bush (it didn't)?
    How about his lie about how many jobs the Keystone pipeline would create when in fact he had evidence to the contrary?
    How about closing Gitmo?
    How about his promise not to have lobbyists in his administration (by 2010 he had at least 40)?
    How about when he said he had Congress' support to carry out intervention in Libya (remember when Dennis Kucinich busted him on that)?

    There's just a very small sampling.
    This is actually a great example of the point I was making.
    These items are not born out of dishonesty or lies, they are items representative of mistakes and spin.
    For example:

    The Fast and Furious thing was clearly a case of Obama being misinformed. Maybe even a combination of both being misinformed and getting it mixed up with operation Wide Receiver.
    In either event, Obama had nothing to gain and only stood to lose by making the statement. If Obama had even the smallest reason to believe that making such a lie would not be discovered and that he had something to gain, well then that would change everything. I'd be standing with you on the issue if that were the case.
    But the simple fact of the matter is that Obama was misinformed and made a mistake.

    I think it is comical that you'd even bring up Keystone. No one agrees on how many permanent jobs Keystone would create. Many think it would be far "less" jobs than what Obama said.
    Even people representing the same side of the argument seem to disagree on how many jobs it would create.
    Hell, that one is not even a lie OR a mistake. Until people can get their act together on some numbers, it is merely an opinion.

    I find it offensive that you'd use GITMO as an example. This is called intellectual dishonesty on your part. You know good and well that Obama would love to close GITMO if Republicans and even some Democrats would allow him to. At worst, Obama over stepped his authority when he made the promise.
    Allow him to close it, and it will be closed.

    The lobbyist thing was a campaign promise. Many of Obama's campaign promises were made out of ignorance. Ignorance because he failed to understand that a lot of these things are just not realistic or within his control. He has also broken his promise to have immigration reform, something that he has exactly zero control over.
    It is easy to see his good intentions. And in most cases it was unpredictable and unreasonable Republican opposition that caused the majority of his broken promises to fail.

    The Libya thing I simply don't know about. But consider this...
    With a Congress that consists of hundreds of men who would like to lynch Obama from a tree and scrutinize every single action and word he makes... Do you think for 1 second that this was a lie and not a mistake? Is it not extremely easy to imagine that Obama was likely told that he would have Congress' support?
    For you to think this was a lie, you'd have to also believe that Obama stood to gain something from it and that he had a reasonable chance of getting away with it. Does this apply?
    Last edited by Painter; 06-15-14 at 01:20 AM.

  5. #185
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    Re: Gallup: Majority Says Obama Not ‘Honest and Trustworthy’

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I asked you - not someone else - but I appreciate that you can't provide an answer. Best to continue to deflect when you've got nothing and you've been called on it.
    The answer is that the "analysis" the article presented was a reference to two provisions of ACA which make it impossible for it to create "death panels" and the article claims that those two provisions prove that ACA does create death panels.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #186
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    Re: Gallup: Majority Says Obama Not ‘Honest and Trustworthy’

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I'm glad to see you point this out. Are you claiming that government funded services act any differently and if you are, what evidence do you have that they do?
    The provisions that the right refer to when talking about death panels do not allow the govt to decide on individual cases. Instead, those provisions set up a panel that will recommend reducing reimbursements for certain procedures. Those reductions in reimbursement apply to everyone, not just old people or others the govt considers "non-productive"
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #187
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    Re: Gallup: Majority Says Obama Not ‘Honest and Trustworthy’

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I ask this because a very large percentage of the newly insured under the ACA exchanges have been funneled into Medicaid. I presume, without any factual basis, only anecdotal reference to government funded health care here in Canada, that government funded health care in the US will not automatically fund all applications for cost coverage of all prescribed or requested services/medications. As such, there will be decision makers - let's call them "panels" in honour of Sarah Palin - which will evaluate the cost/benefit of providing said services/medications. In some case, perhaps not many, such decisions will lead to a denial of services/medications which could lead to a shorter life or a hastened "death". Put it all together and you end up with a "death panel".
    That's not how medicaid works. Medicaid programs are administered by the states and the decisions about whether a specific procedure will be covered for a specific individual is made by the state so ACA does not, and can not, make that decision.

    IOW, if there ever are any death panels, they will not be the creation of ACA.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #188
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    Re: Gallup: Majority Says Obama Not ‘Honest and Trustworthy’

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Were it that simple. I know my insurance company, and this isn't them.

    "Obamacare allotted $1.1 billion to set up a Research Institute, and an additional $3.8 billion for a Federal Coordinating Concil for effectiveness research by a "board" who will establish the research project agenda. There will also be an "expert advisory panel" consisting of research clinicians, patients and experts in scientific and health services research and health services delivery. The HHS Secretary in DC may limit any treatments that are not recommended by the new research institute."

    So research scientists and not doctors will be deciding who gets what treatments. Your insurance company will pay, or not, based on what is decided. Reminds me of the horror movie Coma" with Genevieve Bujold and Michael Douglas! It will be most interesting to see how various ethnic groups, with their unique DNA, are handled, won't it?
    No, they will not be deciding *WHO* gets what treatments. If they decide to lower the reimbursement rate for a specific procedure, then the rate will be lower for *everyone* who needs that procedure and not just old people or other "non-productive" people.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #189
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    Re: Gallup: Majority Says Obama Not ‘Honest and Trustworthy’

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Generally CC and myself don't agree on much politically, but he is a good guy that definitely earned my respect.

    A few years back he thought that the tone of my posts had changed and become more angry and combative than what he had come to expect, so he put politics aside and went out of his way to ask if something was bothering me and if everything was OK in my personal life.... It's a gesture I won't soon forget.
    Thank you, Grim. Nice of you to post that.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #190
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    Re: Gallup: Majority Says Obama Not ‘Honest and Trustworthy’

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Yeah you voted for Obama, but my hands are clean... Nice try, you try to defend him by saying both sides are bad. But that don't work with me, you picked Obama and you voted for an idiot.
    Of course it doesn't work with you. Your partisan blinders prevent you from seeing reality. People like you are precisely what is wrong with this country. You don't care about the US. You just care about "sticking it to the other guy".
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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