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Anti-Redskins ad airing during NBA Finals[W:125]

Just moved, think I will unpack all my Redskins gear tonight and sing Hail to the Redskins with my other HTTR fans.
 
The Man said:
So you come up with a complete strawman to address his statement, when you knew damn well what he meant. Nice!
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Glad you like my post...enough time wasted on you.

We are done here.


Good day.
 
Re: Tonighjt June 11 Watch The NBA Half Time For A Redskins Protest of Racism

Henrin said:
Yes, I would.
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Fair enough....creepy, but fair enough.

At least you stand by what you say.
 
Re: Tonighjt June 11 Watch The NBA Half Time For A Redskins Protest of Racism

Hatuey said:
When you refer to a person by the color of their skin you are in fact drawing a distinct line between that which is proper and normal (your society) and that which isn't.
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Thanks for your opinion Hatuey, but being that you're not a God or possess any magical powers, the fact is you have no basis nor notion to indicate a motive as to why people do what they do in such a broad manner.

While an argument could possibly be argued that doing so is clearly a sign of indicating a difference between what you see as "normal" (debatable), whether or not its "proper" is an entirely judgement call and something you have absolutely ZERO means of identifying if that is a persons thought behind such a use on a grand scale.

Whether or not you find some uses of the word acceptable, the very nature by which slurs are conceived makes it clear that these words are meant to isolate and discriminate against the group.
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So essentially the gist of your argument was that Redskin was a slur created by Native Americans about themselves? Since it was "concieved" by Native Americans and it refered to themselves by the color of their skin.

The fact that redskin was in and of itself a slang term and not an officially sanctioned use of the word (as opposed to Africans and Indians) proves that at no point was this word meant to do anything other than single out Native Americans on basis of their color.
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So by this reasoning, calling someone "white" or "black" is also a slur ... because it's the simple instance of referring to someone based on their color that makes it a slur?

By that logic, calling people "Blonde" or "Brunette" is ALSO a slur as it's singling them out on the basis of color of a feature they're born with.

Similarly, there simply isn't a context in which calling someone a kike or a wop would be anything more than a slur used to single out Native Americans as different and unlike the rest.
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Except, going by the logic and reasoning of the Hautey that has the ability to discern peoples intents and thoughts, the word Redskin was used to identify everyone else as UNLIKE native americans. Thus they termed themselves as a collective "red skins" and the settlers they were dealing with "white skins".

In short, it's a racist word that revisionists have given new meaning to.
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Quite the opposite. It's a word that factually, historically, was not racist in the least. It was later co-opted to be used as a racist term.

The revisionists are those that claim the words origins are racist in nature.
 
Re: Tonighjt June 11 Watch The NBA Half Time For A Redskins Protest of Racism

DA60 said:
Fair enough....creepy, but fair enough.

At least you stand by what you say.
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It just doesn't matter to me. I don't watch sports and I don't see any reason to care about team names.
 
Re: Tonighjt June 11 Watch The NBA Half Time For A Redskins Protest of Racism

CRUE CAB said:
Wikipedia is not the be all end all for definitions. Seeing as anyone can edit it.
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Are You Ready For Some Controversy? The History Of 'Redskin' : Code Switch : NPR

The Pioneers and other books by Cooper were largely seen as sympathetic toward Native Americans and their struggles in the 1800s. Decades later, the word "redskin" began to take on a negative, increasingly violent connotation. Author L. Frank Baum, best known for his classic The Wizard of Oz, celebrated the death of Sitting Bull and the massacre at Wounded Knee calling for the extermination of all remaining Native Americans. In one of the December 1890 pieces, Baum wrote, "With his fall the nobility of the Redskin is extinguished, and what few are left are a pack of whining curs who lick the hand that smites them."
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In 1915, the poet Earl Emmons released , a book so offensive I had to double-check to make sure it wasn't a parody of the racism of that era. Emmons makes his intentions clear in the introduction of the work: "Those persons who got their idea of the Indian from Mr. Cooper have pictured him as an injured innocent. ... Those persons have acquired the wrong idea of the maroon brother." That introduction kicks off a series of poems, songs and speeches, each more offensive than the last.
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Again, this is nothing new.
 
Re: Tonighjt June 11 Watch The NBA Half Time For A Redskins Protest of Racism

ecofarm said:
Because not caring about racism is the grown up thing to do. *snicker*

Where'd you learn that?
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I disagree that it isn't an "in yo face" strategy.
 
Re: Tonighjt June 11 Watch The NBA Half Time For A Redskins Protest of Racism

Henrin said:
It just doesn't matter to me. I don't watch sports and I don't see any reason to care about team names.
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Like I said, fair enough.

I thought when I first read your post that you were making a blustering, exaggerated statement.

I was wrong...you meant it.


Personally, I do watch sports and I think it's dumb to call a team a name that offends so many people. Plus, I think it is insensitive. Though it does not offend me (takes a lot of offend me)...it just makes me lose respect for the owner.

But it is their team and they should be free to call it whatever they want.
 
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Re: Tonighjt June 11 Watch The NBA Half Time For A Redskins Protest of Racism

Perotista said:
The Washington Redskins have been around since 1932 when first playing in Boston. The Atlanta Braves were first the Boston Braves beginning in 1870, then on to Milwaukee and finally Atlanta. The Cleveland Indians have been around since 1901 and not a single person has gone hungry or died because these three team were named after American Indians.

I don't consider it any of my business what a private organization or team calls themselves. This is America, if you don't like their nickname, then don't go to their games. Before the Braves arrived in Atlanta we had a minor league team called the Atlanta Crackers, no problem there. Then to top it off since we also had a Negro league team, they were known as the Atlanta Black Crackers.
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So you are white and that's why name calling doesn't bother you. Because systemic injustice cannot touch you.

If you were a minority, you would understand that sometimes it's more than name calling. It's perpetuating systemic injustice.


apdst said:
I disagree that it isn't an "in yo face" strategy.
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Yes, of course.
 
Zyphlin said:
That woman's dishonest activism has been the single biggest factor in this whole idiotic issue for decades.

In terms of her justification of the claim that the name came about due to scalping bounties
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I worked for about a decade for the Bureau of Indian Affairs as an IT specialist and traveled around a bit in the reservations and worked with a lot of Indians. You'd never guess which team was most commonly rooted for.

(Hint: It wasn't the Cowboys)
 
Re: Tonighjt June 11 Watch The NBA Half Time For A Redskins Protest of Racism

CRUE CAB said:
Wikipedia is not the be all end all for definitions. Seeing as anyone can edit it.
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It's not the end all be all....but Redskin absolutely has been used as a derogatory term. Suggesting it ALWAYS is one is incorrect, but you can't try and claim that it's not been used in that way at some point.
 
At the end of the day, money talks. If the people who want the name changed can come up with enough money to persuade the owner to change the name, and it could be billions, no doubt he would change it, everyone and everything has a price. On the flip side, if the vast majority of people, including Redskins fans want the name changed, they would boycott the Redskins until the name is changed, the owner would lose a lot of money and be forced to change the name.
 
Re: Tonighjt June 11 Watch The NBA Half Time For A Redskins Protest of Racism

Hatuey said:
Are You Ready For Some Controversy? The History Of 'Redskin' : Code Switch : NPR

Author L. Frank Baum, best known for his classic The Wizard of Oz, celebrated the death of Sitting Bull and the massacre at Wounded Knee calling for the extermination of all remaining Native Americans. In one of the December 1890 pieces, Baum wrote, "With his fall the nobility of the Redskin is extinguished, and what few are left are a pack of whining curs who lick the hand that smites them."
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NPR is making an absurd argument. Does the term a group uses for themselves become pejorative because some person wanted to exterminate them?
 
jmotivator said:
I worked for about a decade for the Bureau of Indian Affairs as an IT specialist and traveled around a bit in the reservations and worked with a lot of Indians. You'd never guess which team was most commonly rooted for.

(Hint: It wasn't the Cowboys)
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I'd probably guess it right given the reaction I recieved for my Redskins cap I had on when I last attended NNALEA. However, while that helps me personally in terms of feeling comfortable with my position, I generally don't bring up those kind of things because they're largely annecdotal.
 
Re: Tonighjt June 11 Watch The NBA Half Time For A Redskins Protest of Racism

ecofarm said:
So you are white and that's why name calling doesn't bother you. Because systemic injustice cannot touch you.

If you were a minority, you would understand that sometimes it's more than name calling. It's perpetuating systemic injustice.




Yes, of course.
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Oh I have been called all sorts of name throughout my long life. I probably will be called a lot more. It just seems a bit asinine to get upset over a football teams name. But in today's world of PC, I can understand it. Words have become what is most important, more so even than actions.
 
The Man said:
At the end of the day, money talks. If the people who want the name changed can come up with enough money to persuade the owner to change the name, and it could be billions, no doubt he would change it, everyone and everything has a price. On the flip side, if the vast majority of people, including Redskins fans want the name changed, they would boycott the Redskins until the name is changed, the owner would lose a lot of money and be forced to change the name.
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There's three ways the name changes in Dan Snyder's life time:

1. Copyright protection for the name is revoked
2. The NFL forces Snyder to change the name
3. Congress somehow forces Snyder to change the name

No amount of wailing by bleeding hearts and activists is going to spur him to change the name. The copyright issue might, for the reason you're suggesting...money. If they lose the copyright then non-team created goods with the name can legally flood the market hitting his bottom line significantly.

There is perhaps a .01% chance in my lifetime that actual Redskin fans will boycott the team to a significant degree to actually cause a change.
 
Zyphlin said:
There's three ways the name changes in Dan Snyder's life time:

1. Copyright protection for the name is revoked
2. The NFL forces Snyder to change the name
3. Congress somehow forces Snyder to change the name

No amount of wailing by bleeding hearts and activists is going to spur him to change the name. The copyright issue might, for the reason you're suggesting...money. If they lose the copyright then non-team created goods with the name can legally flood the market hitting his bottom line significantly.

There is perhaps a .01% chance in my lifetime that actual Redskin fans will boycott the team to a significant degree to actually cause a change.
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Yeah the Copyright protection being revoked would have to apply to all NFL teams, hell all sports teams. That's not happening.

The NFL likely won't force Snyder to change the name, because of money. Redskins is one of the most valuable brands in all professional American sports.

Congress though, they are incompetent enough and bored enough to entertain this issue that has absolutely no business being concerned about by congress. That's scary. That would be a slippery slope though, so hopefully probably won't happen.
 
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Re: Tonighjt June 11 Watch The NBA Half Time For A Redskins Protest of Racism

Hatuey said:
You do realize that this has nothing to do with association... yes? Or usage of a term outside of political boundaries? It has to do with the very dangerous corporate exploitation of a term used to demonize and attack Native Americans. Again, Saginaw is the correct term for a people. That's why nobody is offended by it. It's also why people don't get offended at names like French Quarter, Chinatown or Spanish Dock. Now try calling those places Faggot Quarter, Chinktown and Wetback Dock and see if people are offended or not.
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It has nothing to do with "association" I am speaking directly to this attitude that because "someone" may be offended we all have to cater to them, the whole idea is crap and I will laugh at it all day.
 
Re: Tonighjt June 11 Watch The NBA Half Time For A Redskins Protest of Racism

Hatuey said:
Redskin (slang) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Redskin as a derogatory term is nothing made up or new.



No one has asked you to care. It doesn't deter from the fact that it's still pushing for racial stereotypes. :shrug:
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Here is the thing, as long as the same group of politicos keep this line of thinking up I will actively fight it. You can't say any one thing without "offending" "someone" and for that very reason the Washington Redskins should keep the name. The PC movement is a disgusting one with the idea of shutting down language they don't agree with, the more they lose and disappear the better off we all are.
 
Re: Tonighjt June 11 Watch The NBA Half Time For A Redskins Protest of Racism

Zyphlin said:
It's not the end all be all....but Redskin absolutely has been used as a derogatory term. Suggesting it ALWAYS is one is incorrect, but you can't try and claim that it's not been used in that way at some point.
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Gee, and to think I live in a state with a heavy Indian population and they just don't seem up set about the Redskins, or the Braves or the Seminoles or all the cities and counties named after them and use of their words.
 
DA60 said:
He typed:
'People need to grow up and stop concerning themselves with what teams are named.'

So, I wanted to see whether he meant it or not.
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Yes, people need to grow up, speaking for myself. If people really think that they have a right to not be offended I have very bad news for them. If we found some magical way to make passing gas in public or burping illegal, banning all speech that "might offend someone", and applied the death penalty for talking through a movie less people would be offended, and our nation would be poorer for it because most people wouldn't be able to leave their homes without "offending" "someone".
 
Re: Tonighjt June 11 Watch The NBA Half Time For A Redskins Protest of Racism

DA60 said:
Like I said, fair enough.

I thought when I first read your post that you were making a blustering, exaggerated statement.

I was wrong...you meant it.


Personally, I do watch sports and I think it's dumb to call a team a name that offends so many people. Plus, I think it is insensitive. Though it does not offend me (takes a lot of offend me)...it just makes me lose respect for the owner.
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If it offended "so many people" then the stands wouldn't be nearly as full as they are on game day, the Redskins have a rabid fanbase. Someone pointed out already that 80% of the US is at best "meh" on this, and that a majority of tribes have no issue whatsoever with the name. The issue? Simple, a minority with an opinion is shouting loudly and claiming a majority status on the issue, trotting out the few Indians that are actually offended, and a couple of morons in D.C. with much more important issues to concern themselves about are trying to flex a little muscle.

But it is their team and they should be free to call it whatever they want.
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Then people should be silent about it, but that's not what political correctness is about.
 
jmotivator said:
I worked for about a decade for the Bureau of Indian Affairs as an IT specialist and traveled around a bit in the reservations and worked with a lot of Indians. You'd never guess which team was most commonly rooted for.

(Hint: It wasn't the Cowboys)
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And that's another thing, cowboy is the new pejorative that we see thrown around to insult a person as being uneducated, or simple. Dallas should change their mascot immediately, maybe to something less insulting like the Northeast Texans or something like that, or maybe the Dallas Rangers, yeah, that's the ticket. Harry Reid and Obama should get right on that since it's more important than the other stuff they have created with some really choice examples of stupid legislation. Oh, and I haven't given the other side a pass either, that whole baseball investigation when the Republicans had the majority was equally stupid, D.C. has no business trying to get into the internal affairs of private sports leagues.
 
The Man said:
Good. Go troll somewhere else. Thank you. :)
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Finding out the sincerity of another's statement through posing hypotheticals is not 'trolling'.

But you are butting into conversations to apparently pass judgement and make trouble...which is trolling.

You are a waste of time and on my Ignore list.

Btw, Henrin's statement was sincere and I would not have learned that had I not asked.


Good day.
 
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