• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it cou

Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

We are all going to just keep walking on eggshells until he is out of office, and then try to repair the damage he has done to this country.
No damage, and ZERO close to the disaster the USA got Bushwhacked with by Cheney/Rumsfeld last decade .
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

What right? The Constitutional Power to do so is their right.

Once again, of clarity's sake, but without the colors this time:

Congress has the sole power to make law: Article 1, Section 1, All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

Congress has the sole power to say what the government does: Article 1, Section 8, Enumerated Powers: ... To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;... To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof. That would include the Executive, especially the Executive Officer, the President.
Complain all you want, but until this specific type of case is brought to court, presidents will continue to ignore laws that infringe on the executive branch. Once it is brought to court, and if found the president is in violation of the constitution, then such laws will never be signed. They will be vetoed. Now right now, I think most people accept of the way things are.

Food for thought. Do you think that one president can sign a bill that relinquished the executive power granted by constitution, of the next president? This is why such a complaint will either not be tested in court, or lose if it is.

Nobody has answered my question yet.

Have you read the signing statement he made that I linked?
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

He will not be impeached. No one is willing to deal with the fallout that would occur if he was.
No one meaning traitorous Republicans.
The issue will be left open-ended for the next two election cycles by the ones who should be impeached, House leadership .
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

I am willing and demand it actually. He hates america period and i do not trust him one bit.
Obama does not hate AMERICA.
You pretend to hate both parties but only specifically call out one of them .
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Name for me the democrat senators that will vote for impeachment. In fact, name one.
Name for me the Republican Senator who will not vote for impeachment.
In fact, name one.
Think we need another "select" committee that will go through the 2014 election cycle ?
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Knock yourself out. No one will act on your demands.
Obama's impeachment has been demanded since Benghazi. Look where those demands have gotten you.
Reagan would have been impeached a dozen times by your standards .
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

What another informed person here no freaking way!
I call them the repukelicrats!!!!! the one party system of ****.
awesome
I have never seen you once specifically say something negative about Republicans.
Yet you continue to pretend to do this .
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Guess we wait till after the 2014 election then, the dems will lose the senate come 2014
Care to make a donation wager on that votemout?
You do make those right?

How about if either of us quit debate politics if the other is right about the Senate ?
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

He does not have any executive rights to break the laws that he signed into law.
Or any other laws...... But heck he breaks those also guess i should not be surprised.

Showing once again that you're not a legal scholar .
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

The Congress passes laws and has the power of the purse. Both give them power over the Executive to a certain extent. If Congress passes a law that restricts what the Executive can do, the Executive can take it to the SCOTUS. Short of that, the President is required by the Constitution to enforce the law, even against himself. If not, he is a tyrant, and should be impeached.

Presidential signing statements are not law, and do not have the power of law:

It seems Conservatives weren't up in arms against in the early 2000s.

Signing statement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

George W. Bush's use of signing statements was and is controversial, both for the number of times employed (over 700 opinions, although President Clinton actually issued more [14]) and for the apparent attempt to nullify legal restrictions on his actions through claims made in the statements — for example, his signing statement attached to the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008. Some opponents have said that he in effect uses signing statements as a line-item veto; the Supreme Court had previously ruled such vetoes as unconstitutional in the 1998 case, Clinton v. City of New York.[15]
Wikinews has related news: Bush declares immunity from Patriot Act oversight

Previous administrations had made use of signing statements to dispute the validity of a new law or its individual components. George H. W. Bush challenged 232 statutes through signing statements during four years in office and Clinton challenged 140 over eight years. George W. Bush's 130 signing statements contain at least 1,100 challenges.[11][16]

The signing statement associated with the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005, prohibiting cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of detainees in U.S. custody attracted controversy:

"The executive branch shall construe... the Act, relating to detainees, in a manner consistent with the constitutional authority of the President to supervise the unitary executive branch and as Commander in Chief and consistent with the constitutional limitations on the judicial power...."

The use of signing statements that fall in to the constitutional category can create conundrums for executive branch employees. Political scientist James Pfiffner has written:

"The president is the head of the executive branch, and in general, executive branch officials are bound to follow his direction. In cases in which a subordinate is ordered to do something illegal, the person can legitimately refuse the order. But if the public administrator is ordered to refuse to execute the law ... because the president has determined that the law infringes on his own interpretation of his constitutional authority, the public administrator faces an ethical dilemma."[17]

Scalia's take on the matter:

Since at least the Reagan era, scholars, jurists, and others have debated whether presidential signing statements should be considered as legislative history for purposes of interpreting federal statutes. In a recent example, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia disagreed with his fellow justices' disregard of a signing statement related to the Detainee Treatment Act, Pub. L. No. 109-148, §§ 1005-1006, 119 Stat. 2736 (2005). Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, 548 U.S. 557 (2006) (Scalia dissenting).

Here is what Democrats tried to do on the matter as far back as 2006:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/s3731
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/s1747
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/s875

3 bills trying to stop the president from leading through signing statements and NONE were backed by Republicans. Now they're all up in arms against them? Hahahaha.

GOP Media:

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2006/01/10/you_can_t_trust_big_government

These are the enemies of the country, and here's Leahy out basically standings up for the Al-Qaeda Bill of Rights. Now, what he was doing was trying to -- he wanted to -- entrap Alito into agreeing with the premise that the president could ignore McCain's torture law. A couple of Democrats tried this. The president has a signing affidavit after every bill he signs, a signing statement, and he signs his intent, what to do with the legislation, and McCain's torture bill, the president's signing statement said: Hey, I'm commander-in-chief, and if there's a drastic need I'm going to do what it takes.

This whole thing is absurd. Bush said: I can ignore this if I have to, to protect the country. So the Democrats zero in on that and they want Alito to say, "I think the president can ignore anything; I think the president can do anything he wants; there is only one power in this country, and that's the president." That's what they thought he would say.

As I said, **** the faux outrage Republicans on this nonsense. You liked it in 2006? Tough nut today.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Only Obama won't face the music because people are going to walk on eggshells until he is out of office.

Which continues to be the ultimate strawman.
Especially considering the thirteen committees and what no doubt will be another one on the prisoner exchange.
And all the other new Cantor committees unforseen.
No right-minded person considers what the Republicans are doing to Obama and his wife as "walking on eggshells" .
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Complain all you want, but until this specific type of case is brought to court, presidents will continue to ignore laws that infringe on the executive branch. Once it is brought to court, and if found the president is in violation of the constitution, then such laws will never be signed. They will be vetoed. Now right now, I think most people accept of the way things are.

Food for thought. Do you think that one president can sign a bill that relinquished the executive power granted by constitution, of the next president? This is why such a complaint will either not be tested in court, or lose if it is.

Nobody has answered my question yet.

Have you read the signing statement he made that I linked?

Well, first, I'm not complaining, just saying what the law is. If you could go back to the other forum I was on before this one, you would have seen the same thing from me about Bush and his signing statements. That's why I knew about the court cases and could post them so fast, as well as the parts of the Constitution. This has been a pet peeve of mine for a while.

And yes, I read the linked signing statement. In fact, I had read it a long time ago. As well as an EO he put out to his cabinet about signing statements. Not sure what your point in that one was though.

Look, you and I agree on a lot of things on this board. This just happens to be one that we don't. I see it as a threat to our core, the threat of allowing a tyrannical autocrat to rule our country by fiat. So far, we haven't seen that come to pass, but we've come close, and the more it becomes accepted by the people, the less power we will have over our very lives. Obama has written far less signing statements than GWB did. However, Obama's have been more impactful to the American people personally, where GWB's were less so. That doesn't make GWB's any less threatening. The Congress is the representative of the People, the People's House. For a President to side step them and blatantly ignore them, is for him to do that to us, the people.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

he will never leave office, willingly. I see martial law before that ever happens.
This is a Rush Limbaugh prediction right after the 2008 election.
It removes you from being taken seriously .
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

I see it as a threat that congress puts their hands in so many things, to include making rules for the executive branch.

This needs to stop.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

this is why they should make every law a single law and not tag crap on.
Tell that to the House with their poison pills and legislative riders on their so-called "200" bills sitting in Harry reid's circular file.
Practice what one preaches votemout .
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

I see it as a threat that congress puts their hands in so many things, to include making rules for the executive branch.

This needs to stop.
Putin doesn't have this problem.
And he is so admired by today's GOP .
I like your stuff in this thread .
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Putin doesn't have this problem.
And he is so admired by today's GOP .
I like your stuff in this thread .
LOL...

We disagree rather often normally.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

LOL...
We disagree rather often normally.
It's as if Obama is the first President in a new USA.
At least you have been fair-minded to show examples from the past.
Good on you.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

It's as if Obama is the first President in a new USA.
At least you have been fair-minded to show examples from the past.
Good on you.
I dislike this president with a passion. It is the presidency I an standing up for, not him. I truly believe we cannot make it precedent that congress can dictate executive branch function.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Yeah, remember how the right was fully destroyed and no longer exists? Oh wait, that was in your dreams.

X, he did not say the right was fully destroyed nor did he say the right no longer exists.
But when he said he didn't follow, that surely applied to you.
and nat no time can you pr5ove it was in his dreams .
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

It seems Conservatives weren't up in arms against in the early 2000s.

Signing statement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Scalia's take on the matter:



Here is what Democrats tried to do on the matter as far back as 2006:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/s3731
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/s1747
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/s875

3 bills trying to stop the president from leading through signing statements and NONE were backed by Republicans. Now they're all up in arms against them? Hahahaha.

GOP Media:

You Can't Trust Big Government? - The Rush Limbaugh Show





As I said, **** the faux outrage Republicans on this nonsense. You liked it in 2006? Tough nut today.

Well, you see? I don't give a flying fig what the far right said or did or changed their position to when it was no longer convenient. To me, it's no different than the left on such issues; whatever supports "our" guy in office is what we believe on this particular day. I've been against signing statements from as far back as Reagan (When Carter was in the WH I was too busy chasing tale and other lofty aims). Right after Reagan was elected I went to Basic Training and I was old enough to be politically aware. Even as a registered Republican, I was against all singing statements from Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. I was no less against them when it was a Democrat in the White House. I learned in the military and in college that we are a people of laws. And the law, and especially our Constitution are all that protect the common man. And, boy am I common. I didn't agree with being sent around the world to do Reagan's biding. Not because I disagreed with the missions, I didn't. I disagreed with Congress not being in power over the military in funding missions and exercising their sole power to declare war. Like I said, I agreed with Grenada, my first mission under fire. And all the subsequent ones, even those in Central and South America, Africa and few that I don't think are public yet. But I still didn't approve of Congress not being the branch authorizing the missions. I disagree with the War Powers Act in that I feel Congress abrogated their duty and ceded their responsibility to the President for political cover.

So in summary, it really doesn't matter to me that you find it ironic and laughable that the right is hypocritical on this, because in all honesty, so is the left and I find them both ironic and laughable.

The law is the law, regardless of who is in power.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

I dislike this president with a passion.
It is the presidency I an standing up for, not him.
I truly believe we cannot make it precedent that congress can dictate executive branch function.
I get that.
I have enjoyed you taking apart all of their positions .
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Tell that to the House with their poison pills and legislative riders on their so-called "200" bills sitting in Harry reid's circular file.
Practice what one preaches votemout .

You still think im a GOP huh? LOL

LAST TIME the one party system of repukelicrats need to be VOTEDOUT. see VOTEMOUT VOTEDOUT. are you understanding now?
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

Name for me the Republican Senator who will not vote for impeachment.
In fact, name one.
Think we need another "select" committee that will go through the 2014 election cycle ?

I don't believe anyone will vote for impeachment. Everyone just wants this 8 years to end without any of what would follow if they tried to reign him in.
 
Re: Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL claims GOP as former federal prosecutor says it

It seems Conservatives weren't up in arms against in the early 2000s.

Signing statement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Scalia's take on the matter:



Here is what Democrats tried to do on the matter as far back as 2006:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/s3731
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/s1747
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/s875

3 bills trying to stop the president from leading through signing statements and NONE were backed by Republicans. Now they're all up in arms against them? Hahahaha.

GOP Media:

You Can't Trust Big Government? - The Rush Limbaugh Show





As I said, **** the faux outrage Republicans on this nonsense. You liked it in 2006? Tough nut today.


Republicans? Well FYI I was a Democrat when this president came to office. His socialist agenda was clear from the start and after a couple of years, I decided that could no longer stomach the party that would parade such an inexperienced piece of crap out to be president. He has no executive experience, and if he has a law degree, it doesn't show. He is nothing but a partier. I'll be glad when he's gone. But I wouldn't support a race war to get him out 2 years earlier than he will be anyway.
 
Back
Top Bottom