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Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lied to

Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

Amadeus said:
Not that the right-wing cares remotely, but this is what Bergdahl thought of his platoon (sent to his parents via email):

“We don’t even care when we hear each other talk about running their children down in the dirt streets with our armored trucks … We make fun of them in front of their faces, and laugh at them for not understanding we are insulting them.”

I can see why he became disillusioned with the military. He wanted to help the Afghans, and that's what the military promised he could do when they recruited him.
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Sounds like a foolish idealist, whose expectations were based on fantasy and who cannot deal with others coping mechanisms.

Blowing off some steam, dealing with tragedy with laughter and having some laughs making fun of people are not war crimes.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

vesper said:
After Bergdahl went AWOl the mission of the entire unit changed with all resources directed at finding him which put them in places where they were never intended to go and soldiers lost their lives.
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Fair point.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

ecofarm said:
Sounds like a foolish idealist, whose expectations were based on fantasy and who cannot deal with others coping mechanisms.

Blowing off some steam, dealing with tragedy with laughter and having some laughs making fun of people are not war crimes.
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I never said they were war crimes.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

Amadeus said:
I never said they were war crimes.
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You made it out like he'd been fooled into serving. Like he was tricked. That's victimization. He appears to have been a whiny crap-bag that couldn't deal with the stress. Don't try to put that on the army.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

ecofarm said:
You made it out like he'd been fooled into serving. Like he was tricked. That's victimization. He appears to have been a whiny crap-bag that couldn't deal with the stress. Don't try to put that on the army.
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I think the reality of military service, and the nature of the people he was serving with, was incompatible with his nature. I never said he was fit to be a soldier during war time. That doesn't make him a bad person, deserving of execution.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

Amadeus said:
I think the reality of military service, and the nature of the people he was serving with, was incompatible with his nature. I never said he was fit to be a soldier during war time. That doesn't make him a bad person, deserving of execution.
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It makes his excuses BS.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

apdst said:
Not near as excited as the administration is for VA-gate to get bumped from the headlines.
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Oh yeah, you guys are disappointed that that faux outrage won't be going anywhere either. The Right's tears are delicious.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

Filthy McNasty said:
This same poster, Amadeus, is over in this thread arguing a Daily Kos conspiracy theory that this is all the creation of a republican strategist. No really.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news-mainstream-media/195422-bowe-bergdahl-u-s-soldier-held-afghanistan-freed-swap-12.html#post1063359784
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Thanks for promoting my awesome thread, but you misrepresented it. I never cited the Daily KOS or claimed that a Republican strategist was behind it.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

Amadeus said:
Cody Full (from Bergdahl's platoon) is saying that Berdgahl wanted to cut the faces off fallen Taliban and wear it as a mask. Sounds like something a Buddhist philosopher would say.
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That could be "sounds like something a Christian would say", or any other group. You're defending this guy because you believe he's a Buddhist philosopher, and they can't be messed up?

Let's presume that he is a 'Buddhist philosopher', and that they cannot be messed up. Then, what... conspiracy?
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

Amadeus said:
Thanks for promoting my awesome thread, but you misrepresented it. I never cited the Daily KOS or claimed that a Republican strategist was behind it.
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Opps, yeah you sorta did. tres borachos called you out on it too. I like how no matter what is shown to you, your basic stances just stays the same. Sure it gets contorted and convoluted as all hell but hey you are not actually trying to present a persuasive case or actually engage intellectually in the first place. So whoop te doo, right?
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

ecofarm said:
You're defending this guy because you believe he's a Buddhist philosopher, and they can't be messed up?
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Nope. I'm saying that it doesn't the profile, Bergdahl's desire to do missionary work, or the emails he wrote to his parents complaining about sociopathic behaviour from his platoon.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

Filthy McNasty said:
Opps, yeah you sorta did. tres borachos called you out on it too. I like how no matter what is shown to you, your basic stances just stays the same. Sure it gets contorted and convoluted as all hell but hey you are not actually trying to present a persuasive case or actually engage intellectually in the first place. So whoop te doo, right?
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Quote me.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

Amadeus said:
Nope. I'm saying that it doesn't the profile, Bergdahl's desire to do missionary work, or the emails he wrote to his parents complaining about sociopathic behaviour from his platoon.
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I find that when someone jumps to the defense of an individual based upon that individual's claim to group status, the person is generally trying to prove something to themselves, about themselves, and is not truly engaged in the evidence of the case.

What makes you believe this guy was a "good Buddhist", so to speak.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

ecofarm said:
I find that when someone jumps to the defense of an individual based upon that individual's claim to group status, the person is generally trying to prove something to themselves, about themselves, and is not truly engaged in the evidence of the case.

What makes you believe this guy was a "good Buddhist", so to speak.
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How is this a response to what you quoted? I explained my point quite clearly.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

Amadeus said:
How is this a response to what you quoted? I explained my point quite clearly.
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Wanting to go on missions is not evidence of impeccable character, in and of itself. His platoon was not sociopathic, it was using laughter as a coping mechanism for terrible things. To pretend that soldiers are unaffected by such things is lunacy. Laughter is a common coping mech for trauma, especially when the situation is not immediately escapable.

You're using an idiot's (the guy in question) perspective of the situation to demonize the military and elevate a deserter. If he was so enlightened, he would have understood how laughter fit in the digestion of horror, and even made others consciously aware of such. Instead, the intellectual child perceives his colleagues as sociopathic.

The fail is all his.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

ecofarm said:
Wanting to go on missions is not evidence of impeccable character, in and of itself. His platoon was not sociopathic, it was using laughter as a coping mechanism for terrible things. To pretend that soldiers are unaffected by such things is lunacy. Laughter is a common coping mech for trauma, especially when the situation is not immediately escapable.

You're using an idiot's (the guy in question) perspective of the situation to demonize the military and elevate a deserter. If he was so enlightened, he would have understood how laughter fit in the digestion of horror, and even made others consciously aware of such. Instead, the intellectual child perceives his colleagues as sociopathic.

The fail is all his.
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Then there is the matter of his tearing a few pages out of the book of Kerry. As in the "running down" of children claim in his letter to his family. Something about that claim seems a wee bit fishy. But no no, it is the "claims" of everyone else that are fishy don't ya know?
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

Filthy McNasty said:
Then there is the matter of his tearing a few pages out of the book of Kerry. As in the "running down" of children claim in his letter to his family. Something about that claim seems a wee bit fishy. But no no, it is the "claims" of everyone else that are fishy don't ya know?
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We once caught a guy writing some pretty silly stuff to a girlfriend. It was fun giving him hell for a while.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

Amadeus said:
Inconclusive and speculative.
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Yeah, well those guys only served with Bergdahl. What can we expect them to know?
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

Wiggen said:
Yeah, well those guys only served with Bergdahl. What can we expect them to know?
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It's all inconclusive and speculation!

Except, of course, that he's a 'good Buddhist' and the US military, and the people therein, are evil sociopaths bent on the slaughter of innocents and human bonfire. That part is obvious fact.
 
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Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

Amadeus said:
I am going to out on a limb and say that not only is Bergdahl a good, decent man and honest man -- but he joined the military for the right reasons. Not to shoot Afghans or get revenge for 9/11, but to help them build a better society. While his platoon was out visiting strip clubs (verified), he would immerse himself in the language of Afghanistan and try to understand them better.

Was he a good war time soldier? Probably not.
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there are strip clubs in Afghanistan? Really? Do you have a link for that.

I find your defense of Bergdahl and your criticism of his fellow soldiers to be just slightly bizarre. The soldier who writes emails condemning his country and his fellow soldiers and then deserts is a good guy, and the ones who stay behind and honor the oath they took are the bad guys? I don't think so.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

Phys251 said:
Oh yeah, you guys are disappointed that that faux outrage won't be going anywhere either. The Right's tears are delicious.
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Don't try and paint this as a left-right situation. It isn't. I'll match my left of center posting history on this forum with anybody else here, and I am very uncomfortable with the man and the White House handling of all of this. Is the Right trying to make political hay out of this? Sure. But that doesn't change the facts. And the facts are pretty bad, both as to the character of Bergdahl and to the deal itself.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

ecofarm said:
Fair point.
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This was pointed out by one of the soldiers interviewed in the last couple of days. He argued that the death toll of his team increased because when you are fighting an insurgent war your best defense is randomness. You catch the enemy off guard with random patrols. They can't ambush you if they don't know where you are. When you go into recovery operations you are more exposed because search and recovery requires patterns that the enemy will pick up on.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

apdst said:
The men in that unit say those soldiers died looking for Bergdahl. Thats a credible source.
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The men? I've only seen one man speak against Bergdahl and he seems to be everywhere on tv and quoted freely by almost every news outlet....none of which have verified a word he said. Some are finally starting to check into his story and they are finding holes....lots and lots of holes.
 
Re: Parents of fallen soldier: Our son died looking for Bergdahl and the military lie

Wiggen said:
there are strip clubs in Afghanistan? Really? Do you have a link for that.
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Actually, this was in Georgia during his training. He would skip those activities and study philosophy books and later Pashto (through Rosetta Stone).

I find your defense of Bergdahl and your criticism of his fellow soldiers to be just slightly bizarre.
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I find the rush to launch a coordinated media campaign accusing Bergdahl of treason slightly bizarre.
 
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