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Thread: Edward Snowden NBC NEWS FULL INTERVIEW[W:28]

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    Re: Edward Snowden NBC NEWS FULL INTERVIEW[W:28]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    So you think its justifiable all the **** the NSA is doing?
    Now that's interesting. I point out that the "NSA is bad so Snowden is Good" formulation is a false binary, and your response is to demand if I therefore think that all the stuff the NSA was doing is justifiable.

    Are you okay with Snowden revealing our intelligence gaps, our cyber capabilities, disrupting the US/EU relationship right before Russia went into Ukraine, and helping Taliban fighters avoid our collection, thereby putting our soldiers sailors and Marines into greater danger? Do you have a good reason for why he would release not the PRISM program, but all the other crap that he has?

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    Re: Edward Snowden NBC NEWS FULL INTERVIEW[W:28]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post

    Are you okay with Snowden revealing our intelligence gaps, our cyber capabilities, disrupting the US/EU relationship right before Russia went into Ukraine, and helping Taliban fighters avoid our collection, thereby putting our soldiers sailors and Marines into greater danger?
    Yes. But is there actually any proof that "sailors and Marines were put into greater danger"? We heard the same thing about the Wikileaks Afghanistan leaks, but yet they were not put into greate danger.

    Do you have a good reason for why he would release not the PRISM program, but all the other crap that he has?
    I do. 1.)It proves are worldly "big brother" status
    2.)It reveals way more than the PRISM collection system
    3.)Shows the corruption and the negligence in the NSA itself
    4.)Shows that we are collected way more data and information that we can handle


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    Re: Edward Snowden NBC NEWS FULL INTERVIEW[W:28]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Yes. But is there actually any proof that "sailors and Marines were put into greater danger"?
    Yes. We lost collect capability because the Taliban switched communications methodology, meaning that we weren't able to anticipate and prepare for attacks as well as we were before.

    To put it in an analogy, if you are boxing a dude, and then your coach slips a very thin blindfold over you, one you can sort of kind of see dim outlines of people through, has he helped you? Or the person you are boxing.

    We heard the same thing about the Wikileaks Afghanistan leaks, but yet they were not put into greate danger.
    that is incorrect.

    I do. 1.)It proves are worldly "big brother" status
    A) How in the world is the Intelligence Community identifying it's own gaps with regards to the Pakistani nuclear program proving a worldly Big Brother status
    B) Knowing what is going on in the world and informing the President and other senior decision makers is the Intelligence Community's job. That's why we set them up in the first place.

    2.)It reveals way more than the PRISM collection system
    You are damn right it did. The vast majority of Snowden's leaks have nothing whatsoever to do with collect against US persons or data.

    3.)Shows the corruption and the negligence in the NSA itself
    Actually those leaks demonstrate that the NSA is (was) doing it's job, in collecting against foreign targets.

    4.)Shows that we are collected way more data and information that we can handle
    Um. How in the world does it do that.



    We depend upon our cyber capabilities to protect critical US infrastructure and information. Snowden gave that up to the Chinese and the Russians. We depend on the ability to collect against the Taliban and associates in order to forestall or minimize the damage of their attacks. Snowden dramatically reduced our ability to do that. There isn't a good excuse for that from an American.

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    Re: Edward Snowden NBC NEWS FULL INTERVIEW[W:28]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yes. We lost collect capability because the Taliban switched communications methodology, meaning that we weren't able to anticipate and prepare for attacks as well as we were before.

    To put it in an analogy, if you are boxing a dude, and then your coach slips a very thin blindfold over you, one you can sort of kind of see dim outlines of people through, has he helped you? Or the person you are boxing.
    I have heard this claim but have not seen a document to prove this claim, especially since US deployment forces are (for the most part) leaving Afghanistan...

    that is incorrect.
    http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/201...-not-damaging/
    Pentagon says WikiLeaks war logs don’t harm national security - Salon.com
    Review of WikiLeaks docs sees no smoking gun - World news - South and Central Asia | NBC News
    https://pressfreedomfoundation.org/b...-united-states

    A) How in the world is the Intelligence Community identifying it's own gaps with regards to the Pakistani nuclear program proving a worldly Big Brother status
    So we should collect Polish documents? Allies documents? We collected porn habits for god sakes.

    B) Knowing what is going on in the world and informing the President and other senior decision makers is the Intelligence Community's job. That's why we set them up in the first place.
    To trace everything? Even innocent peoples!?


    You are damn right it did. The vast majority of Snowden's leaks have nothing whatsoever to do with collect against US persons or data.
    So as a person who upholds the founding fathers you do so many times here, you are ok with 1 government doing a global spying effort that makes George Orwell's book look like a playbook?



    Actually those leaks demonstrate that the NSA is (was) doing it's job, in collecting against foreign targets.
    Collected porn habits of Professors and activists is "its job"? Really!?


    Um. How in the world does it do that.
    NSA Struggles to Make Sense of Flood of Surveillance Data - WSJ

    We depend upon our cyber capabilities to protect critical US infrastructure and information. Snowden gave that up to the Chinese and the Russians. We depend on the ability to collect against the Taliban and associates in order to forestall or minimize the damage of their attacks. Snowden dramatically reduced our ability to do that. There isn't a good excuse for that from an American.
    Hmmm: NSA program stopped no terror attacks, says White House panel member - NBC News


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    Re: Edward Snowden NBC NEWS FULL INTERVIEW[W:28]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I have heard this claim but have not seen a document to prove this claim, especially since US deployment forces are (for the most part) leaving Afghanistan...
    Wishful thinking. We are going to be there for years. And now things will be more hostile.

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    Re: Edward Snowden NBC NEWS FULL INTERVIEW

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    ^ What are you talking about? Data mining is a marketing tool. People's activities get monitored by private websites who then use the anonymous data for marketing purposes. That's not the same thing a the government collecting info about your relationships, bank transactions, digital communications, etc... to build a profile on you when you haven't even committed a crime.

    Snowden is right. Our government (Republican and then Democrat) rode the 9/11 tragedy all the way to bank. We do not have the level of freedom from government intrusion that we had even back then, and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.
    Personally I support Snowden's decision to blow the whistle. He's technically a traitor by law, but so was Washington. Great men taking huge risks is what created the great country the world (and America) used to revere. It will require the same great men and risky deeds to restore it to that state.

    Watch the documentary Terms and Conditions May Apply. There is wording in "Privacy" policies and Terms of Use documents that states any information and content surrendered to the services becomes property of the service and can use it for whatever they like. They also share this information with federal agencies. If you search for a string of keywords that might lead someone to believe you're planning a murder, you're probably going to either get a call, a knock on the door, or at the very least be place under additional surveillance. There really is not much limitation to what information is not available to the government. You can thank the patriot act for a lot of this.

    Edit:

    Additionally, as a software engineer, I can tell you data mining is not used exclusively for marketing. The whole premise behind data mining is to find trends in data that can be used to project an outcome, regardless of the kind of outcome. This is most widely recognized through marketing, but it can just as easily be adapted to other things as well. You can be sure that there are mining algorithms looking for specific things related to "national security". I don't see many terrorists being caught though.
    Last edited by Krystov; 06-04-14 at 01:52 AM. Reason: Adding additional argument
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    ...play stupid games, win stupid prizes...

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    Re: Edward Snowden NBC NEWS FULL INTERVIEW

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Most mainstream American media has proven it is not adversarial and certainly not unbiased, especially under this administration.

    They never to their job, but this is where they decide to get tough? Please.
    Thanks for the straight answer!

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    Re: Edward Snowden NBC NEWS FULL INTERVIEW

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Govt doesn't forget things like this. He might be able to disappear. But otherwise his existence will get more and more unpleasant.
    You're right. Much of the government consists of arrogant children who froth at the mouth whenever anyone challenges them. This has nothing to do with national security and you know it. Just look what happens when the president or a politician reveals truly sensitive information and compare that to how they are treating Snowden.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: Edward Snowden NBC NEWS FULL INTERVIEW

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Like I said, even IF he exposed some things that may or may not be illegal (the govt would argue it is, and frankly we dont know the full extend of these measures) that doesn't change what he did.
    ...And what he did was defend the original American law: the US Constitution. But of course, that document has better use as toilet paper nowadays.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: Edward Snowden NBC NEWS FULL INTERVIEW

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is false. He loaded terabytes of data onto those laptops - assuming he worked literally 24 hours a day non stop the entire time he was in Hawaii, he didn't have the physical ability to be "highly selective" or screen what he took and what he didn't. At best he just grabbed the best stuff he could find, and stuffed as much of it as he could into the laptops before taking off to China.
    I am talking about what he released.
    Last edited by Geoist; 06-05-14 at 12:07 PM.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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