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Thread: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Someone that conflates government and country is not well informed.
    Separating government and nation might work with dictatorships, but not with democracies.

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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    But is there some things that need to be kept secret?
    By all means.

    I understand that a military is necessary in this world, and that some secrets must be kept.

    Trouble is we've gone to the far extreme of keeping everything secret.

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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Separating government and nation might work with dictatorships, but not with democracies.
    Wishful thinking.

    We have only the illusion of a democracy, however you wish to measure it.

    Sad to report, but Utopia is not an option in human affairs.

    Recall that George Washington compared government to fire--a useful servant but a fearsome master.

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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    You seem like the kinda guy that would defend the rosenburgs.
    Yes... because stealing vital information that allowed the Soviet Union to get the atomic bomb is EXACTLY THE SAME as information being revealed to us that our government is conducting generalized spying on us.

    Got any more completely stupid strawmans for me to destroy in a single sentence? Or do you actually want to address what I said to you in the first place, namely:

    Like what? Releasing exclusively to our so-called free press, watching them cater to government wishes & going to prison for exposing gross Constitutional violations?

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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Wishful thinking.

    We have only the illusion of a democracy, however you wish to measure it.
    That's delusional.

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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    But is there some things that need to be kept secret?
    Yes there are. They should be kept to an abosolute minimum. What our government does though is classify virtually everything. That's not the way a transparent government is supposed to work.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That's delusional.
    Perhaps you could demonstrate to me how we are actually a democracy?

    I'm defining the notion as a system whereby the people control the government, even by way of elected representatives. That the government does what the people want it to do. Or that it stops doing things the people want it to stop doing.

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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Perhaps you could demonstrate to me how we are actually a democracy?
    We elect officials. We have a constitution to protect everyone's rights, including minorities. We have human, civil, labor and environmental rights. We can bring suits against government offices. We can kick people out of office. We have a legit justice system.

    I understand you're a Truther, and so you think the government is an evil entity and separate from the people, but that's delusional.

    You're equating the US and Western nations with totalitarian dictatorships. This is, in effect, apologizing for them.

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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    We elect officials. We have a constitution to protect everyone's rights, including minorities. We have human, civil, labor and environmental rights. We can bring suits against government offices. We can kick people out of office. We have a legit justice system.

    I understand you're a Truther, and so you think the government is an evil entity and separate from the people, but that's delusional.

    You're equating the US and Western nations with totalitarian dictatorships. This is, in effect, apologizing for them.
    Do our elected officials create and enforce policies that benefit all the people, or just special interest groups? Do our elected officials engage in wars and police actions under cover of fraud? (Was Eisenhower hallucinating in his Farewell Address?)

    When the legislature violates the Constitution with illegitimate acts such as the Unpatriot Act and the recent NDAA amendment, does the Judiciary defend the Constitution? Does the Executive Branch ever defend the document, or is it happy with the specious Unitary Executive concept?

    If we can sue the government, why are there so few examples of it? Why was U.S. v. Reynolds decided against the widows and the Federal Tort Claim Act, in 1953, if your claim is accurate? 345US1

    With the highest per capita rate of imprisonment in the entire world for the last 25 or 30 years, and with a situation in which common offenders are sentenced to obscene sentences for petty crimes and nobody at all is prosecuted for attacking the US Constitution, are you really sure you want to stand by your last?

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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    With the highest per capita rate of imprisonment in the entire world for the last 25 or 30 years,
    Developing countries...

    1. Do not have appropriate incarceration facilities.
    2. Hide atrocities that serve as "justice".
    3. Have far more corruption deciding if someone goes to prison.
    4. Lack the necessary police force.
    5. Allow and even promote street justice.

    If you'd spent time in a developing country, you'd realize what a joke it is to compare the justice systems.

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