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Thread: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I think this will prove exactly what we all expected, that the NSA is spying on not threats to our country but ordinary people, simply because they can.
    Well I guess I won't be breaking a sweat over this, I'm not an ordinary person.

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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I hope I make the list!
    If you're serious, that's pretty odd, but if you're being sarcastic, it's not exactly a joking matter.

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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    To me this is just the cherry on the attention whoring cake that is the Snowden scandal.

    For example:


    He is eating up his 15+ minutes with a spoon and savoring every bite at the limelight.

    If he wasn't a self-aggrandizing blowhard, I might have actually cared more about this, but when a journalist makes himself a big part of the story, I just can't muster the outrage. The circus that has been made of this since day one has completely detracted from what should have been a serious discussion in this country. One I cared about not too long ago. Snowden and Greenwald deserve each other and whatever the fallout that comes of this crapfest and the blame for what doesn't change that should have. I used to have a bit of respect for Greenwald. He could be counted on to make everyone uncomfortable with his well asked questions. He's transformed into a preening jerk. Bah.

    Ok, let me have it (better phrasing).
    A serious issue is a serious issue. You admit that this issue deserves greater attention. Hold your nose, and give it the attention it deserves, then, because it really is bigger than any blowhard.
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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Debate with you is pointless, because you bring nothing substantial to the table. You always move the goalposts to debate something other than the topic at hand.
    Woah buddy, you're the one that in a previous thread dismissed, with SEIU spin and lies the reality the SEIU forced, against their will some 30-40 THOUSAND poor, low income "home health caregivers" (read family members taking care of disabled family generally) into being unionized, in the process stealing MILLIONS from them. You had no problem with this enforced government mandated unionization. That the moment these people were able to break from they did so in a majority of the cases and your anger at this reality shows you WANT government to enforce behavior you support.

    Ergo your being upset at the NSA Spying is puzzling, seeing as to have the world you want you need government to do things like spy on citizens.

    The problem here isn't me moving goalposts, it's your upset that I call you out and that you have no defense. I spoil your little propaganda speeches.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    A serious issue is a serious issue. You admit that this issue deserves greater attention. Hold your nose, and give it the attention it deserves, then, because it really is bigger than any blowhard.
    How? The circus they generated gives cover to those who would rather not see the problem solved. If Greenwald/Snowden had not gleefully made themselves the topic, the media attention would have been on those who should be taken to task and those who should be called upon to fix NSA. It's not now because of this giant media circus.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Do you remember the Mail incident during Andrew Jackson's administration? You see, abolitionist mail was going through the post office and was found in South Carolina. South Carolinians, intent on keeping the slavery regime, felt that this literature was encouraging rebellion and so forth. South Carolinians had a few options to deal with this controversy. Upon asking for his advice, Andrew Jackson offered his own solution. His solution was that you distribute the mail, but you put the names of those who received abolitionist literature in the newspapers. The individuals would then have to claim the mail. Of course, that solution was perhaps a reasonable one for the Post Office in South Carolina, because it ostracized those who happened to have been in the mailing lists of northern abolitionists and everyone knew who was the Judas and could be treated more harshly. Jackson's solution didn't come to fruition, because a mob formed and burned the offending mail.

    The consequences of putting the names of those who were spied upon by the NSA should not be taken lightly.
    Emphasis mine.

    You're of course right. Legitimate targets of intelligence gathering in the U.S. including American citizens don't need the validation or unquestionable knowledge that they're being targeted. My interest resides in if dissidents, political opponents, business owners, etc people like that are being targeted.

    The latter being a problem should resonate with everyone. More people should be upset that the way intel gathering & targeting is done is generalized. Generalized warrants was one of the many reasons our ancestors rebelled against the British. (Don't infer anything other than a historical fact from me saying that.)

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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    How? The circus they generated gives cover to those who would rather not see the problem solved. If Greenwald/Snowden had not gleefully made themselves the topic, the media attention would have been on those who should be taken to task and those who should be called upon to fix NSA. It's not now because of this giant media circus.
    With the current relationship between market driven media and politics in our country, you simply have to throw the dog (the media) a bone to get ANY movement whatsoever on any issue. The media dog's only 'bone' of choice IS a circus. There are people working to influence what the NSA and the government can and can't do, entirely as a consequence of the circus. There is plenty to join in on trying to get things done.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    Emphasis mine.

    You're of course right. Legitimate targets of intelligence gathering in the U.S. including American citizens don't need the validation or unquestionable knowledge that they're being targeted. My interest resides in if dissidents, political opponents, business owners, etc people like that are being targeted.

    The latter being a problem should resonate with everyone. More people should be upset that the way intel gathering & targeting is done is generalized. Generalized warrants was one of the many reasons our ancestors rebelled against the British. (Don't infer anything other than a historical fact from me saying that.)
    This was my main point: once the non-actual threat's name is out there, it becomes a target for social repercussions. Being associated with possible threats, even if the story was meant to be saying that the NSA is acting with malice toward the law-abiding citizenry, now means the public at large may see you as suspicious. Joe Q. Public may be generally law-abiding (at least where it counts). That being said, when Joe Q. Public is found listed for all to see with a list of other names thought to be worth looking into by the NSA, Joe is now more suspicious than someone not on the list. Being on the list, now publicly disseminated, is more of a liability than a gift.

    In this case, although the NSA has likely targeted many innocents and Greenwald is supposedly acting to reverse this, Greenwald may be putting innocents in harms way by publishing the names of people targeted by the NSA.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 05-27-14 at 02:36 AM.
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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    With the current relationship between market driven media and politics in our country, you simply have to throw the dog (the media) a bone to get ANY movement whatsoever on any issue. The media dog's only 'bone' of choice IS a circus. There are people working to influence what the NSA and the government can and can't do, entirely as a consequence of the circus. There is plenty to join in on trying to get things done.
    I'll just have to disagree. Other issues, like the current scandal going on about the VA, have gotten the proper media attention and forced people in charge to have their feet held to the fire and caused change. We do not see changes occurring with the NSA. There may be, but it is not being given very much public attention. I think Snowden/Greenwald have damaged the cause.

    And if he dumps a laundry list of names of people who have been spied upon, he's likely to have quite a legal problem over it. The inference being of a blind dump, that some of those names might have been legit targets, but it won't be plain who was and wasn't and countless reputations could be called wrongly into question. Now that might be what Greenwald is after, to make people angry enough to rise up at the government, but my first response, were it me, would be to join a class action suit to sue the pants off him and his publisher.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

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    Re: Glenn Greenwald to publish list of U.S. citizens that NSA spied on

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    How? The circus they generated gives cover to those who would rather not see the problem solved. If Greenwald/Snowden had not gleefully made themselves the topic, the media attention would have been on those who should be taken to task and those who should be called upon to fix NSA. It's not now because of this giant media circus.
    Idealism is nice and all but often does not match the reality at hand.

    The media was quick to post the revelations & accompanying documents but it was clear from the start that that was because of the business model 'controversy creates cash' and not because they (the overwhelming majority of them) wanted change & a restoration of our 4th Amendment privileges, which is strongly evidenced by the left-and-the-right flip-flopping on N.S.A. spying I.e. it's more of a political football than an issue of unconstitutionality. I say that because the media was (& is overall) quick to quote government officials & political commentators who vehemently condemned Snowden & Greenwald stopping just short of calling them communists without offering any/much pushback themselves. Furthermore, on more than one occasion, our government convinced our media *not* to print certain revelations. What does that mean? Well, being co-opted comes to mind immediately as does the "free press" we like to believe we have having sizable gaps where it isn't.
    Last edited by Jango; 05-27-14 at 02:46 AM.

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