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House libertarians blast USA Freedom Act

CanadaJohn said:
Funny, I personally never thought that I lacked the courage of my convictions simply because I wasn't a card-carrying member of a political collective. Maybe libertarians who are members of the Democrat Party and the Republican Party are trying to expand access to the libertarian view of things rather than simply living in an echo chamber of like-minded, closed-minded souls.
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There are no libertarians in the Democratic Party - those who reside under the umbrella of the term libertarian can hold a great variety of views on a many subjects, but one thing that unites all libertarians is that government should not be positive. No Democrat believes that.

There are many special interests lurking within the Democratic Party, but each and every one of them wants something from government - they want government to do something for them, and/or against someone else... whatever their motivation doesn't matter. They want to wield government for their own ends.

Most Republicans are the same as every Democrat - only with different special interests to cater to. That said, what libertarians there are in Washington, they do reside in the Republican Party; but they are so few in number as to be inconsequential.

The one thing that the core of both the Republican and Democratic Parties have in common is that neither has any use for the rule of law. The Constitution means nothing to the majority of both parties - just as it means nothing to most Americans.
 
polgara said:
Good morning, CJ! :2wave:

"The major parties could conduct live human sacrifices on their podiums during prime time, and I doubt anyone would notice." Dave Barry
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They came close with Clint Eastwood butcher job last time and lots of people noticed the sacrifice.
 
Ockham said:
7 alternative search sites that respect your privacy
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My preference for Bing is personal. It is the largest search engine other than Google. Google threw me off their search engine a couple of years ago but I continue to get first page placement on Bing and the other search engines. So my comment is really anti google rather than pro bing - although I do think Bing is a better search tool.
 
polgara said:
Good morning, CJ! :2wave:

"The major parties could conduct live human sacrifices on their podiums during prime time, and I doubt anyone would notice." Dave Barry
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Good afternoon Lady P. - beautiful weekend here, first of many to come!! Good time for your planting, I think - have fun.
 
wist43 said:
There are no libertarians in the Democratic Party - those who reside under the umbrella of the term libertarian can hold a great variety of views on a many subjects, but one thing that unites all libertarians is that government should not be positive. No Democrat believes that.

There are many special interests lurking within the Democratic Party, but each and every one of them wants something from government - they want government to do something for them, and/or against someone else... whatever their motivation doesn't matter. They want to wield government for their own ends.

Most Republicans are the same as every Democrat - only with different special interests to cater to. That said, what libertarians there are in Washington, they do reside in the Republican Party; but they are so few in number as to be inconsequential.

The one thing that the core of both the Republican and Democratic Parties have in common is that neither has any use for the rule of law. The Constitution means nothing to the majority of both parties - just as it means nothing to most Americans.
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That's a bit of a cynical view, but I can't honestly say it's unfounded.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
No, it wouldn't. What a truly dizzying intellect.
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At least come up with something original instead of copying me.



OldWorldOrder said:
I just pointed out something that's not explicitly in the constitution that the federal government does. You didn't get that. What a truly dizzying intellect.
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You pointed out something worth ridiculing. Congratulations for doubling down. Let's see if you go for the tri-fecta!

OldWorldOrder said:
You don't understand what the phrase expectation of privacy has to do with this, do you? What a truly dizzying intellect.
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Tri-fecta!

Aww.... don't worry you'll get better.
 
haymarket said:
And I am talking about frauds who do not even have the courage of their supposed convictions. Ron Paul included.
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CalGun said:
Its one thing to have the ideology, but the article read "House libertarains" of which there are none. If a congressman, like Ron Paul when he served, wanted to call themselves libertarians they should have registered as such and not lied to the conservative based Republican party. One of my biggest issues with Ron Paul was his first and most upfront lie - he was never a Republican he was always a Libertarian, but he'd lie about it to get on the "R" ballot since the "L" ballot is worthless and society wholly rejects (by over 98.9%) their extreme views.
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There is nothing that says libertarians must reside within the Libertarian party. Their libertarianism basically boils down to strict Constitutionalism/far right conservatism as well. These people are wholly up front about their views and they get elected.

 
Ockham said:
At least come up with something original instead of copying me.



You pointed out something worth ridiculing. Congratulations for doubling down. Let's see if you go for the tri-fecta!

Tri-fecta!

Aww.... don't worry you'll get better.
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Did your cat walk across the keyboard? Jesus, sorry that professionals and policy makers don't agree with some yokel from the internet lol
 
Bigfoot 88 said:
There is nothing that says libertarians must reside within the Libertarian party. Their libertarianism basically boils down to strict Constitutionalism/far right conservatism as well. These people are wholly up front about their views and they get elected.
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Actually "these people" are about one thing and only one thing and that is power and they know that there is not a snowballs chance in hell of getting it with the Libertarian Party so they put on the costume of the Republican, run under that banner, and hope the voters are fools.

And they far too often are.

Sadly, the GOP took in these frauds as a way of expanding their dwindling numbers in hopes of power for themselves. it was like a starving person taking in food for strength. Of course, we all know what happens to that food the next day as it turns to crap and has to be expelled from the system. That waste is now the libertarians in the GOP and they are being expelled into the political toilet as far too many were responsible for the election losses of the last cycle.

The toilet must be flushed - and I suspect while it will take a few years - it will be done and the libertarian waste pushed out of the system into the political sewer.
 
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OldWorldOrder said:
Did your cat walk across the keyboard? Jesus, sorry that professionals and policy makers don't agree with some yokel from the internet lol
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Don't be so hard on yourself.. you're not a yokel.
 
No they get elected as Republicans. They may well have libertarian leanings but if the were to run a Libertarians on the ballot they lose....remember not ONE member of 435 puts the L behind his or her name....for a reason.


Bigfoot 88 said:
There is nothing that says libertarians must reside within the Libertarian party. Their libertarianism basically boils down to strict Constitutionalism/far right conservatism as well. These people are wholly up front about their views and they get elected.

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CalGun said:
No they get elected as Republicans. They may well have libertarian leanings but if the were to run a Libertarians on the ballot they lose....remember not ONE member of 435 puts the L behind his or her name....for a reason.
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The reason for that isn't because of their ideologies but rather because we live in a closed, idiotic 2 party system. Almost everyone is upset with their government and the horrible two parties we have that don't represent the people. We need a change so that parties can rise and fall and not just stay propped up forever no matter how horrible they are.
 
The 47% who enjoy the hands outs don't hate the government, the 52% that are able to be successful and thrive don't hate the government, the 1% of the libertarians might hate the government - I don't like what the government does in many cases but I love that we live in a society like the USA and wouldn't want to return to the stonages of liberatarianism. Neither, I suspect, do the other nearly 99% that continually reject any candidate with an "L" behind their name.

RabidAlpaca said:
The reason for that isn't because of their ideologies but rather because we live in a closed, idiotic 2 party system. Almost everyone is upset with their government and the horrible two parties we have that don't represent the people. We need a change so that parties can rise and fall and not just stay propped up forever no matter how horrible they are.
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CalGun said:
The 47% who enjoy the hands outs don't hate the government, the 52% that are able to be successful and thrive don't hate the government, the 1% of the libertarians might hate the government - I don't like what the government does in many cases but I love that we live in a society like the USA and wouldn't want to return to the stonages of liberatarianism. Neither, I suspect, do the other nearly 99% that continually reject any candidate with an "L" behind their name.
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So you are exceptionally content with the Republicans and Democrats in our system and see no room for growth whatsoever? And I didn't say hate, you did. I said is upset with, which is true. Most Americans are upset with the way the government is being planned, but there is absolutely no chance that any party, be it Greens, Libertarians, Constitutionalists, Socialists, etc. etc. ever have a chance because the system is designed to make sure they don't.

Funny that you'll write "other" under your lean, but claim to be perfectly and completely content with one of the two existing parties. Whatever "other" belief you might hold, unless it falls under the democrat or republican platform, you will not be represented.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
The reason for that isn't because of their ideologies but rather because we live in a closed, idiotic 2 party system. Almost everyone is upset with their government and the horrible two parties we have that don't represent the people. We need a change so that parties can rise and fall and not just stay propped up forever no matter how horrible they are.
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And that change must begin with so called libertarians backing the party that is the Libertarian Party and accept the short term consequences for long term goals.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
So you are exceptionally content with the Republicans and Democrats in our system and see no room for growth whatsoever? And I didn't say hate, you did. I said is upset with, which is true. Most Americans are upset with the way the government is being planned, but there is absolutely no chance that any party, be it Greens, Libertarians, Constitutionalists, Socialists, etc. etc. ever have a chance because the system is designed to make sure they don't.

Funny that you'll write "other" under your lean, but claim to be perfectly and completely content with one of the two existing parties. Whatever "other" belief you might hold, unless it falls under the democrat or republican platform, you will not be represented.
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Look, Libertarians hate any government. That's why you are Libertarians. If you didn't hate government, you'd be something else.
 
Beaudreaux said:
You're welcome.

It appears that he's trying to say - if we didn't compromise, the bill wouldn't make it through the Senate or maybe even be Vetoed by the President. My oldest son said, that would be fine. At least then the country would know where the Senate and the President stand on freedom, liberty, and the Constitution (specifically the 4th Amendment). I think my son is correct in that. They should have let Harry Reid and Obama explain to the nation why their privacy isn't important anymore and why the Constitution is "just a piece of paper."
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This tactic of digging in our heels and refusing to compromise on anything isn't serving us very well. We may think that it shows where the opposition stands but in practice nobody remembers these votes. Who knows or care that the Republicans, for example, voted 50 some odd times to repeal Obamacare? It hasn't done the Republicans a damn bit of good. It doesn't do a lot of good to stand on your principles if that means you make no progress toward anything you care about.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
The reason for that isn't because of their ideologies but rather because we live in a closed, idiotic 2 party system. Almost everyone is upset with their government and the horrible two parties we have that don't represent the people. We need a change so that parties can rise and fall and not just stay propped up forever no matter how horrible they are.
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Well, you could have a multi-party system like they have in the UK, but what that means in practice is that the parties have to form coalitions to rule, many times coalitions with parties that differ in their policy ideas, so it boils down to basically the same thing as we have in a two party system, where, for example, social conservatives have to join fiscal conservatives or environmentalists have to join welfare stateists and race based groups to win elections.

And if libertarians are too pure to join a coalition then that just means that they are permanently members of the loyal opposition. Sometimes I think libertarians prefer it that way since they get to snark and snipe from outside the tent all the time.

Regardless of the system parties that refuse to join coalitions and compromise get exactly nowhere in terms of getting real policies enacted.
 
Wiggen said:
Look, Libertarians hate any government. That's why you are Libertarians. If you didn't hate government, you'd be something else.
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Incorrect. I would explain what libertarians actually believe (having a strong justice system and defense, while maximizing personal liberty for the individual), but you don't actually care. Any chance to get to lob insults at libertarians without actually having to provide any input is your favorite type of situation isn't it?

Was your education so poor that you can't identify the difference between an anarchist and a libertarian? If you're too lazy to even glance at the libertarian party platform or actually ask a libertarian what he believes, I can't really help you.

LowDown said:
Well, you could have a multi-party system like they have in the UK, but what that means in practice is that the parties have to form coalitions to rule, many times coalitions with parties that differ in their policy ideas, so it boils down to basically the same thing as we have in a two party system, where, for example, social conservatives have to join fiscal conservatives or environmentalists have to join welfare stateists and race based groups to win elections.

And if libertarians are too pure to join a coalition then that just means that they are permanently members of the loyal opposition. Sometimes I think libertarians prefer it that way since they get to snark and snipe from outside the tent all the time.

Regardless of the system parties that refuse to join coalitions and compromise get exactly nowhere in terms of getting real policies enacted.
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Perhaps, but you can at least identify to what party the individual politicians belong instead of fitting everyone on the left and everyone on the right into two super-parties.

Parties in Europe rise and fall all the time. Here in the US we've decided there can only be two and they shall be immortal until the end of time. Hardly a healthy environment for a democracy.
 
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Wiggen said:
Since Libertarians, not believing in any government - especially the Federal Government - don't like any 'Acts', it's hardly surprising they don't like this one.
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Not all libertarians are anarchists.

You libertarian-haters know absolutely nothing about the philosophy, can't comprehend libertarians not running in the LP, and you shouldn't be commenting in the thread. The thread is really about the bill, not you guy's delusions.
 
Bigfoot 88 said:
Not all libertarians are anarchists.

You libertarian-haters know absolutely nothing about the philosophy, can't comprehend libertarians not running in the LP, and you shouldn't be commenting in the thread. The thread is really about the bill, not you guy's delusions.
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I've never met an libertarian who is an anarchist. We don't have a problem with government. We just want one that is effective. We believe the government we have now is bloated, expensive, incompetent and corrupt. We would prefer to have a government without those characteristics. I'm truly astounded that everybody doesn't feel that way. But such is human nature.
 
All you Libertarians need to go back and brush up on your Ayn Rand. You don't believe in government. You don't believe in a strong military. You don't believe in anything except personal greed. It's your mantra.

Of course that's why your Presidential candidate doesn't have the guts to run as a Libertarian, and instead pretends to be a Republican. If you believe in limited government, you are a Republican. If you believe in no government, you're a Libertarian. As for Anarchists, at least they're honest in their beliefs. Stupid, but honest.
 
Wiggen said:
Since Libertarians, not believing in any government - especially the Federal Government - don't like any 'Acts', it's hardly surprising they don't like this one.
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Why do you just make up stuff? Please show us a link supporting that bold (above) assertion.

Try educating yourself, about the Libertarian Party platform, first:

Platform | Libertarian Party
 
No thanks. I read your high priestess in college, laughed myself silly, and then discarded the whole philosophy as just greed and social Darwinism at its worst. It doesn't matter how much you dress it up, it's still bull****.

When is your Presidential candidate going to display some balls and actually call himself a Libertarian?
 
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