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Thread: House libertarians blast USA Freedom Act

  1. #101
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    Re: House libertarians blast USA Freedom Act

    No point in continuing with this. I reject what you believe and you reject what I believe. You want me to think that the stock market doesn't represent business profits. Then you want me to believe that the government printing money is the same thing as creating wealth. You think I am wrong. I think you are wrong. So be it.

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    Re: House libertarians blast USA Freedom Act

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    There are no House LIBERTARIANS. Every single one of them declared their affiliation and none did so as a LIBERTARIAN. I have no doubt that some are also baseball fans, or fans of comedy or sci-fi movies, or detective novels, or countless other things that label one. But in electoral politics there is one declared affiliation that stands before all others - and that is the party label you run on. And none chose the LIBERTARIAN label.
    Unfortunately true. I wish we could manage things without political parties.

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    Re: House libertarians blast USA Freedom Act

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    There are no House LIBERTARIANS. Every single one of them declared their affiliation and none did so as a LIBERTARIAN. I have no doubt that some are also baseball fans, or fans of comedy or sci-fi movies, or detective novels, or countless other things that label one. But in electoral politics there is one declared affiliation that stands before all others - and that is the party label you run on. And none chose the LIBERTARIAN label.
    You noted that the article was wrong. Since the article used small-l libertarian the implication is that that is their political philosophy not their party affiliation so the article is in fact correct as far as their libertarianism is concerned.
    Last edited by Gaius46; 05-27-14 at 12:07 PM.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: House libertarians blast USA Freedom Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    You noted that the article was wrong. Since the article used small-l libertarian the implication is that that is their political philosophy not their party affiliation so the article is in fact correct as far as their libertarianism is concerned.
    And I was going by what is in reality and runs on to get elected- not what somebody claims to be.
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    Re: House libertarians blast USA Freedom Act

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Which would have nothing to do with my statement either way. Don't mind me, I just think it's funny when random guys on the internet arbitrarily decide that people working with intelligence agencies are suddenly enemies of the United States. As if they have any idea.
    This type of short term and narrow minded thinking is why we have a congress who can't even get anything done. Who says the info they collect is only used for good? Who says it isn't accessible for bribery and other uses of that nature. Who gets access to this data and what is it used for? If Ed Snowden can get it, I think just about anyone in the administration or congress could if they wanted. Maybe to find dirt on their competitors? Who knows. Things that are supposed to be for the better of society rarely are.

    Just because they are an intelligence agency they should be trusted? Really? That is pretty shaky logic. Maybe I am just to cycnical. One thing is for sure, with the amount of scandalous activity going on right now, I don't trust anyone in .gov.
    Last edited by JRSaindo; 05-27-14 at 01:08 PM.

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    Re: House libertarians blast USA Freedom Act

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    I get that it seems that way. But metadata storage isn't spying. If companies will keep it, that's good enough. But a record needs to be available, one way or another, to piece things together after the fact. If security organizations knew it was possible to keep these records but didn't attempt to have them preserved, they'd be in dereliction of their duties.
    Yes it is spying. If someone were to track everything I do online, they can piece together my life. Locations I was at (remember all phones have tracking), travel patterns, people I know, etc. It is criminal. They can create a profile on anyone they want with metadata. Be in dereliction of their duties? HAHAHAHA. Biggest joke of this decade. NOONE is held accountable these days. Just claim ignorance, seems to work for everyone in the administration.

    WHAT is far too much power? Have you ever read the user's agreement on Gmail? I'm sure lots of people can find lots of ways to do lots of things. But ignoring effective ways is only interesting to people who have no responsibility for ensuring the job is done. I'll venture to say you have no background or experience in national security, so of course it's easy for you to say "find other ways". Most people who do, though, want these things in place. And national level legislators happened to listen to them today. I'm glad they decided to listen to them, but frankly that was never in doubt anyway.
    We don't accept the ToS for NSA collecting data on us unwillingly. Sounds like you aren't too much of an expert on national security, unless you would like to prove more than just throwing out conjecture. They have other means to get data they need to track down criminals and terrorists. They cannot prevent most attacks anyway as we saw with the Boston Marathon bombing, so why the need to collect this data if we can't prevent an attack or crime?

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    Re: House libertarians blast USA Freedom Act

    Quote Originally Posted by JRSaindo View Post
    This type of short term and narrow minded thinking is why we have a congress who can't even get anything done.
    Huh?

    Who says the info they collect is only used for good? Who says it isn't accessible for bribery and other uses of that nature. Who gets access to this data and what is it used for?
    Who says NSA isn't run by an evil clone of Jesus and Stalin's ghost? Who says they don't print your text messages on clay pigeons and shoot at them over the Baltimore-Washington Parkway? Do you have an actual complaint other than "I dunno wut they do and it makez me mad"?

    If Ed Snowden can get it, I think just about anyone in the administration or congress could if they wanted. Maybe to find dirt on their competitors? Who knows. Things that are supposed to be for the better of society rarely are.
    What? What did Edward Snowden "get"? You think he "got" metadata in storage? Why do you think that?

    Just because they are an intelligence agency they should be trusted? Really? That is pretty shaky logic. Maybe I am just to cycnical. One thing is for sure, with the amount of scandalous activity going on right now, I don't trust anyone in .gov.
    Don't. I don't think NSA really much cares.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRSaindo View Post
    Yes it is spying. If someone were to track everything I do online, they can piece together my life. Locations I was at (remember all phones have tracking), travel patterns, people I know, etc. It is criminal. They can create a profile on anyone they want with metadata. Be in dereliction of their duties? HAHAHAHA. Biggest joke of this decade. NOONE is held accountable these days. Just claim ignorance, seems to work for everyone in the administration.
    No, that would be if they analyzed the data. That's different than storing it. Analyzing it is spying. Storing it is not. Two different things. But don't worry, I'll let you claim ignorance.

    We don't accept the ToS for NSA collecting data on us unwillingly.
    Who is "we"?

    Sounds like you aren't too much of an expert on national security, unless you would like to prove more than just throwing out conjecture.
    Conjecture about what? Didn't the bill pass? Is that conjecture?

    They have other means to get data they need to track down criminals and terrorists. They cannot prevent most attacks anyway as we saw with the Boston Marathon bombing, so why the need to collect this data if we can't prevent an attack or crime?
    How do you know they can't prevent most attacks? Or was that...conjecture? lol
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    Re: House libertarians blast USA Freedom Act

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    No, that would be if they analyzed the data. That's different than storing it. Analyzing it is spying. Storing it is not. Two different things.
    You'll need an electron microscope to see the hair you're splitting.

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    Re: House libertarians blast USA Freedom Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    You'll need an electron microscope to see the hair you're splitting.
    Or experience. One or the other.

    Analyzing the data takes a court order. That's...ya know...kind of a big deal.
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    Re: House libertarians blast USA Freedom Act

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Or experience. One or the other. Analyzing the data takes a court order. That's...ya know...kind of a big deal.
    Spying only requires observation. It doesn't matter if you do anything with the data you've collected; its still spying.

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