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More NSA Secrets Revealed

Zyphlin said:
I fully expect other countries to try and spy on us, and I fully expect my country to try and spy on them. The only thing we did wrong was get caught imho
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You are spying on yourselves....

You are spying on your allies...


and as the latter, I intend to do everything in my power to remove from office the government which has been complicit in this spying and replace it with one that will simply tell Washington to **** off......
 
Fearandloathing said:
You are spying on yourselves....

You are spying on your allies...


and as the latter, I intend to do everything in my power to remove from office the government which has been complicit in this spying and replace it with one that will simply tell Washington to **** off......
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Are you familiar with Five Eyes? Ottawa isn't going to tell Washington to **** off, because Ottawa is just as ingrained in it. It's a partnership, and the vast majority of the signals intelligence is shared between the members.

They're- GASP!- all happy to have intelligence to provide key atmospherics to events, decisions, and policies. Who would've imagined that? That people who have to make important decisions enjoy having the most information regarding it that they can possibly have? Would you have guessed that?
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Are you familiar with Five Eyes? Ottawa isn't going to tell Washington to **** off, because Ottawa is just as ingrained in it. It's a partnership, and the vast majority of the signals intelligence is shared between the members.

They're- GASP!- all happy to have intelligence to provide key atmospherics to events, decisions, and policies. Who would've imagined that? That people who have to make important decisions enjoy having the most information regarding it that they can possibly have? Would you have guessed that?
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Oh, an American who has been following internal Canadian politics?

Harper slit his political wrists by cooperating with Obama at the G-8/G-20....welcome back the Liberals as in Pierre Trudeau, the thorn in the side of Johnson, Nixon, Ford and Carter, and Chretien, who won four straight elections campaigning against Washington.

Spying for military purposes is OK, when you start tracking the lives of school aged children of your allies, that's a deep rooted, sick and twisted paranoia Canadians find repulsive.....

We will see but you have few friends here anymore, especially after the Ukraine
 
Fearandloathing said:
Oh, an American who has been following internal Canadian politics?

Harper slit his political wrists by cooperating with Obama at the G-8/G-20....welcome back the Liberals as in Pierre Trudeau, the thorn in the side of Johnson, Nixon, Ford and Carter, and Chretien, who won four straight elections campaigning against Washington.

Spying for military purposes is OK, when you start tracking the lives of school aged children of your allies, that's a deep rooted, sick and twisted paranoia Canadians find repulsive.....

We will see but you have few friends here anymore, especially after the Ukraine
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It really has nothing to do with internal politics. Canada was so upset with the UK regarding the Suez crisis that they changed their flag...but they still remained part of Five Eyes.

Look at the classification markings on the stuff Snowden leaked...Canada is part of this. A wonderful ally to the US, UK, New Zealand, and Australia. Political winds about anti-spying won't change the greatest intelligence alliance in the history of mankind; policy makers are too smart for that.
 
Hard Truth said:
The position that any type of international spying is acceptable is based on the notion that people in other countries have no right to privacy. I believe all people are entitled to that right.
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No it is based on the fact that other nations are potential threats and no government can function or survivie without trying to learn them.
 
Soupnazi630 said:
No it is based on the fact that other nations are potential threats and no government can function or survivie without trying to learn them.
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Governments have no right to privacy. I have no problem with spying on anyone when there is reasonable suspicion of criminal activity and/or a threat of violence. I do not support invading the privacy and/or collecting private information on non-governmental groups or individuals without reasonable suspicion, no matter where they live. I'll accept increased risk for more personal privacy for myself and others. Lacking privacy protection puts one at risk as much as security lapses.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
It really has nothing to do with internal politics. Canada was so upset with the UK regarding the Suez crisis that they changed their flag...but they still remained part of Five Eyes.

Look at the classification markings on the stuff Snowden leaked...Canada is part of this. A wonderful ally to the US, UK, New Zealand, and Australia. Political winds about anti-spying won't change the greatest intelligence alliance in the history of mankind; policy makers are too smart for that.
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Yes, Canada has been part of this...

And thank you for telling me about the politics of my country.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Yes, Canada has been part of this...

And thank you for telling me about the politics of my country.
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You're welcome! I look forward to continuing to work with my Canuck intelligence brethren!
 
Hard Truth said:
Governments have no right to privacy. I have no problem with spying on anyone when there is reasonable suspicion of criminal activity and/or a threat of violence. I do not support invading the privacy and/or collecting private information on non-governmental groups or individuals without reasonable suspicion, no matter where they live. I'll accept increased risk for more personal privacy for myself and others. Lacking privacy protection puts one at risk as much as security lapses.
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I agree except that none of this applies to other nations.
 
Fearandloathing said:
You are spying on yourselves....

You are spying on your allies...
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I have issues with them spying on us.

I have no issues with them spying on our allies, just as I fully expect our allies to be spying on us.
 
Hard Truth said:
I believe human rights are, or should be, universal.
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If everyone else agreed, there would be no need for any defense or security apparati at all. But since they don't- and even if they said they did, no one can be sure of the other's honesty- it'd be foolhardy to act in such a way.

Again: naive.
 
Hard Truth said:
I believe human rights are, or should be, universal.
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Well when other nations recognize a bill of rights ( and our government truly recognizes ours ) then that sentiment might mean something.

Until then ours takes precendence.
 
The government screwed up when it started justifying doing wrong things for good reasons. Once that begins, the threshold to prevent self serving behavior has no bars. Torture, sanctioned murder, spying on allies and financial manipulation will inevitably turn inwards as we go on the witch hunt for the "Red Menace".
 
Soupnazi630 said:
Well when other nations recognize a bill of rights ( and our government truly recognizes ours ) then that sentiment might mean something.

Until then ours takes precendence.
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Then you can't complain when (for example) you find out that the Chinese government has been listening to your phone calls.
 
Hard Truth said:
Then you can't complain when (for example) you find out that the Chinese government has been listening to your phone calls.
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You're right and I would not.

I only demand that our government does not listen to them.
 
Hard Truth said:
Then you can't complain when (for example) you find out that the Chinese government has been listening to your phone calls.
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It's pretty well known in some circles that any traffic going through France is collected and analyzed. The people that know that don't freak out over it; that's just how business is done. It's the real world.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Sure they are. Does that justify anything however?
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lol yes, it does. Spying is something that countries have done for centuries upon centuries to try to gain an upper hand as far as information goes. Now suddenly you think governments should stop trying to get information? lol wtf?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Because its incredibly hypocritical.
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That's like saying it's hypocritical that a football team would try to score touchdowns while preventing the other team from scoring a touchdown. Touchdowns, like spying, are only a means to an end- they're neither good or bad aside from how they further the pursuit of that end: winning.
 
joG said:
There are many reasons to collect such data. It very much depends on the exact data being mined, how it can help. The areas run from crime fighting and terror prevention over hralth and traffic planing to monitoring for insider trading, corruption or political shenanigans among very many others.
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Nothing has been exposed because of this. Its unnecessary and unconstitutional.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Video @: [/FONT][/COLOR]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF_Dsn3AoOY

Yup! 6 billion a month! 74 million in Poland! So much so that the NSA admits that they are collecting so much more so that they can handle, yet they continue to do it. Literally NSA is(was) the big brother of the world! Another document shows that the NSA focused on Venezuelan oil, Japanese trade, and Mexican energy issues. Big brother of the world!
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It is a nasty fact in this geopolitical world that everybody spies on everybody and everyone tries to gain as much info on the other guy as possible. It is just that the technology of today has made spying so much easier and much more intrusive so to speak.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
lol yes, it does. Spying is something that countries have done for centuries upon centuries to try to gain an upper hand as far as information goes. Now suddenly you think governments should stop trying to get information? lol wtf?
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So we should collect information on just about everyone who lives on this planet? Wow... I thought Big Brother was a bad thing..
 
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