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Thread: More NSA Secrets Revealed

  1. #81
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    Re: More NSA Secrets Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What? You think the US government can't buy Facebook's info on it's Pakistan users?
    No. I dont think that. I think its wrong that they can do that. I think its wrong that they can go around the companies backs to do this. Hell I think its wrong for some of the companies that knowingly allow this to happen, I think that is wrong as well.

    Look, even the most ardent opponents of this sort of thing have to admit that the US monitors maybe, maybe 500-1000 people in the country.
    I'm not a absolutist. I realize the reason to have an intelligence agency in the country. Im pointing out that what we have is way more than that. We currently have a system that pretty much goes unchecked that collects millions upon millions of communications here in the US... What ever happened to privacy? Then hell in a country of Poland, (i know they are radicals there) 71 milion in Poland!

    Most of them with clear and evident ties to terrorist groups.
    Really? Not according to many reports... Hell reports claim that study this, not a single attack has been stopped because of this...

    The NSA people aren't sitting around reading every single bs e-mail people send trying to get laid. It's not reading text messages about how great last night was.
    ****. It wasnt?
    Top-Secret Document Reveals NSA Spied On Porn Habits As Part Of Plan To Discredit 'Radicalizers'
    NSA admits employees spied on husbands, boyfriends, and girlfriends | PCWorld

    Most of those are filtered out by algorithms and strings of words that they're specifically looking for. Again, this isn't even coming from an NSA apologist.
    Something tells me from the informatino that has been revelaed says that is total bullsht. Reports say they were pretty much free at will and knowingly abused their power..

    This is coming from the very people who are against this sort of thing. So rest easy, unless you're sending e-mails to a guy in Pakistan asking for bomb making material or asking a guy in Mali about the package that needed to be delivered to a suburban address in Ohio, the NSA doesn't really care about your coffee group at Starbucks or your university's socialist club.
    A lot of Polish people must be about ready to do something crazy! Maybe invade Germany for sweet sweet revenge!?


  2. #82
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    Re: More NSA Secrets Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    What is it, again, that you think intelligence agencies should do?
    Hey that Vietnamese vendor must of been deep on that pay roll for the NSA.
    But see post #81


  3. #83
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    Re: More NSA Secrets Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Hey that Vietnamese vendor must of been deep on that pay roll for the NSA.
    Then the NSA budget should count as foreign aid.

  4. #84
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    Re: More NSA Secrets Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Then the NSA budget should count as foreign aid.


  5. #85
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    Re: More NSA Secrets Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    No. I dont think that. I think its wrong that they can do that. I think its wrong that they can go around the companies backs to do this. Hell I think its wrong for some of the companies that knowingly allow this to happen, I think that is wrong as well.

    I'm not a absolutist. I realize the reason to have an intelligence agency in the country. Im pointing out that what we have is way more than that. We currently have a system that pretty much goes unchecked that collects millions upon millions of communications here in the US... What ever happened to privacy? Then hell in a country of Poland, (i know they are radicals there) 71 milion in Poland!

    Really? Not according to many reports... Hell reports claim that study this, not a single attack has been stopped because of this...

    ****. It wasnt?
    Top-Secret Document Reveals NSA Spied On Porn Habits As Part Of Plan To Discredit 'Radicalizers'
    NSA admits employees spied on husbands, boyfriends, and girlfriends | PCWorld

    Something tells me from the informatino that has been revelaed says that is total bullsht. Reports say they were pretty much free at will and knowingly abused their power..

    A lot of Polish people must be about ready to do something crazy! Maybe invade Germany for sweet sweet revenge!?
    Taking instances of rogue employees using their position to spy on family members hardly detracts from the point I made. If anything it proves the rule. Again, read your own links instead of just posting silly-nilly and thinking those link prove anything:

    Top-Secret Document Reveals NSA Spied On Porn Habits As Part Of Plan To Discredit 'Radicalizers'

    The NSA document, dated Oct. 3, 2012, repeatedly refers to the power of charges of hypocrisy to undermine such a messenger. “A previous SIGINT" -- or signals intelligence, the interception of communications -- "assessment report on radicalization indicated that radicalizers appear to be particularly vulnerable in the area of authority when their private and public behaviors are not consistent,” the document argues.
    The NSA picked out a few radical Muslims and sought to undermine their presence in their groups. There is nothing even remotely wrong with that. It'd be no different than what it did to the KKK or what it does to members of the NBP. If you think there is something wrong with undermining the power of radical clerics, I'd love to hear it.

    NSA admits employees spied on husbands, boyfriends, and girlfriends | PCWorld

    The letter from NSA Inspector General George Ellard, released Thursday by Senator Charles E. Grassley, cites 12 "substantiated instances" of the intentional misuse of the signals intelligence (SIGINT) powers of the NSA.
    Again, 12, count them TWELVE examples of employees using their position to spy on their significant others, being caught and fired. Does that prove the NSA cares about your sexting? No. It proves that there are people who can violate the code of ethics even within the NSA. It also proves that when they do it, they usually do it to people they know.

    What I really enjoy about your post is this sentence: What ever happened to privacy?

    Well let's see, you're currently on a website that you've written 17,000 posts on in 3 years. You've also posted a link to your Tumblr account. A Tumblr account that could probably be tied to a few other social media sites you use. If I did a little digging, I'd probably be able to find out what university you go to and probably could hire somebody to track you down to your current address. All because of stuff you've posted online. All because of stuff you WILLINGLY reveal about yourself online. All because of stuff you willingly reveal online and then complain that it's being bought, cataloged and kept somewhere.

    Easy solution to your problem: Stop using the internet. Cut up your credit cards. Leave school. Hide in Montana. Become the Una-bomber Part II and hope that you cut all links to society. If you don't? You can still be tracked down by information you willingly use and reveal every day. That debit card you have? The bank sells your purchase history. That driver's license you have? It's indirectly tied to your credit score. The clothes you're wearing? They're part of the statistics kept and sold by clothing companies. What's weird is that you're pretty much tracked down every single moment of the day by corporations and government agencies without noticing and you don't complain. The NSA collecting information on people with ties to Al-Qaeda? All hell must break lose.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  6. #86
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    Re: More NSA Secrets Revealed

    I'm not going to pretend that I understand the full extent of what is being done, or the extent to which it may or may not affect national security. That's way above my experience, education, and pay grade.

    I do know, however, that the first time NSA spying on its own citizens came to light in 2004-2005, the Bush administration threatened newspapers not to break the story and persecuted whistleblowers. After the story broke nationally, they basically minimized what was actually being done, and flat-out lied about it.

    Remember Obama's campaign rallying cry, "I promise more transparency in government. Under my watch, the government will not be spying on its own citizens" (slightly paraphrased because my memory isn't perfect, but context is quite correct)? The Bush administration's NSA brouhaha was what he was referring to.

    Fast forward to 2009, Obama is inaugurated and briefed on the NSA "data mining" project. Did he say, hell no, this is illegal and must stop? No, he did not. He said, wow, this is like, really cool! And he just kept on with the same Bush/NSA data mining policies. And then came Snowden (who is a traitor, btw, and gets no pass from me for betraying his country). Suddenly, everyone had a collective brain-fart about the fact that Bush had not only been doing the same thing, but actually established the NSA data mining in the first place... and it's "Gawk!!!! Obama is evil!!!!"

    Well, yeah, he is evil. So was Bush. So is everyone involved in this mess for the past decade, because the information goldmine was too yummy for anyone in a position of power to pass up.

    This isn't an Obama problem; it isn't a Bush problem. It's a governmental problem that will continue to transfer from president to president to president until and unless we actually end up with a commander in chief who isn't afraid to pull the plug on this totally illegal, wholly unconstitutional betrayal of the American people.

    If you're interested in an in depth study of the NSA data mining project from inception to present, take a look at Frontline: The United States of Secrets (Parts I and II)

  7. #87
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    Re: More NSA Secrets Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I'm not going to pretend that I understand the full extent of what is being done, or the extent to which it may or may not affect national security. That's way above my experience, education, and pay grade.

    I do know, however, that the first time NSA spying on its own citizens came to light in 2004-2005, the Bush administration threatened newspapers not to break the story and persecuted whistleblowers. After the story broke nationally, they basically minimized what was actually being done, and flat-out lied about it.

    Remember Obama's campaign rallying cry, "I promise more transparency in government. Under my watch, the government will not be spying on its own citizens" (slightly paraphrased because my memory isn't perfect, but context is quite correct)? The Bush administration's NSA brouhaha was what he was referring to.

    Fast forward to 2009, Obama is inaugurated and briefed on the NSA "data mining" project. Did he say, hell no, this is illegal and must stop? No, he did not. He said, wow, this is like, really cool! And he just kept on with the same Bush/NSA data mining policies. And then came Snowden (who is a traitor, btw, and gets no pass from me for betraying his country). Suddenly, everyone had a collective brain-fart about the fact that Bush had not only been doing the same thing, but actually established the NSA data mining in the first place... and it's "Gawk!!!! Obama is evil!!!!"

    Well, yeah, he is evil. So was Bush. So is everyone involved in this mess for the past decade, because the information goldmine was too yummy for anyone in a position of power to pass up.

    This isn't an Obama problem; it isn't a Bush problem. It's a governmental problem that will continue to transfer from president to president to president until and unless we actually end up with a commander in chief who isn't afraid to pull the plug on this totally illegal, wholly unconstitutional betrayal of the American people.

    If you're interested in an in depth study of the NSA data mining project from inception to present, take a look at Frontline: The United States of Secrets (Parts I and II)



    I'm afraid data mining emails, texts and phone calls is minor compared to some of the stuff they've been doing in the name of National Security.

    A little known story came out after the WH published an NSA report saying that "(2) Governments should not use their offensive cyber capabilities to change the amounts held in financial accounts or otherwise manipulate the financial systems." When asked if that's what they've been doing, they responded with, the NSA admitted to tracking financial information but only as it related to terrorist financing and terror networks. It states, "This information is collected through regulatory, law enforcement, diplomatic, and intelligence channels, as well as through undertakings with cooperating foreign allies and partners."

    In 2008, the Wall Street Journal reported on “so-called 'black programs' whose existence is undisclosed.” Many of them “began years before the 9/11 attacks but have since been given greater reach. Among them, current and former intelligence officials say, is a longstanding Treasury Department program to collect individual financial data including wire transfers and credit-card transactions.” If one government agency has the data, then they all do.

    The rest of the story can be read here... Is the NSA Changing Bank Accounts?

    If this is old information that we know about.. god knows what they're really up too currently? Privacy, citizen, rights, laws and Constitution are all terms becoming open to interpretation, especially when they invent phrases like "War on Terror". What the hell does that really mean, security at any costs thru absolute power of government?
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  8. #88
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    Re: More NSA Secrets Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I'm afraid data mining emails, texts and phone calls is minor compared to some of the stuff they've been doing in the name of National Security.

    A little known story came out after the WH published an NSA report saying that "(2) Governments should not use their offensive cyber capabilities to change the amounts held in financial accounts or otherwise manipulate the financial systems." When asked if that's what they've been doing, they responded with, the NSA admitted to tracking financial information but only as it related to terrorist financing and terror networks. It states, "This information is collected through regulatory, law enforcement, diplomatic, and intelligence channels, as well as through undertakings with cooperating foreign allies and partners."

    In 2008, the Wall Street Journal reported on “so-called 'black programs' whose existence is undisclosed.” Many of them “began years before the 9/11 attacks but have since been given greater reach. Among them, current and former intelligence officials say, is a longstanding Treasury Department program to collect individual financial data including wire transfers and credit-card transactions.” If one government agency has the data, then they all do.

    The rest of the story can be read here... Is the NSA Changing Bank Accounts?

    If this is old information that we know about.. god knows what they're really up too currently? Privacy, citizen, rights, laws and Constitution are all terms becoming open to interpretation, especially when they invent phrases like "War on Terror". What the hell does that really mean, security at any costs thru absolute power of government?
    the only way to stop the madness is to end the war on terror.
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  9. #89
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    Re: More NSA Secrets Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    the only way to stop the madness is to end the war on terror.
    The problem is that it wasn't nothing new. We've been actively engaging and defending against terrorist acts, since at least the 70's.

    The gov't used a terrible act to invent a new catch phrase and reason to grab more power. That shouldn't be such a surprise, since we all know politicians are power hungry and the reason they run for office.

    They need to end the intensity of actively prosecuting Terrorists and go back to surveillance and reacting to serious threats. This crazy targeting and drone killing is absolutely horrendous. The amount of money and resources we implemented could probably pay off half the Natl Debt. We used a tank to swat a mosquito.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: More NSA Secrets Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Nothing has been exposed because of this. Its unnecessary and unconstitutional.
    Really? That is a rather daring assessment. But the attitude is clear, though, I fear very dangerous.

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