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Thread: 'Bundy Affair' Rides Again in Utah Canyon Protest

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    Re: 'Bundy Affair' Rides Again in Utah Canyon Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Ironically the protesters are the ones screaming that its theirs, all theirs. BTW beef prices are high because the Cattleman's association works hard to make it high.
    Oh and that trail is only closed to motorized vehicles, non motorized vehicles can still go on that trail. That includes horses. Certainly isnt closed.
    where did bundy say the land the the .gov owns is his? and yes he does own land in that area just not some areas his cattle graze.
    SO your saying subsidizing no work F!$k's with healthcare is good but helping a hard working american to help the american people eat cheaper beef is bad?
    really???

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    Re: 'Bundy Affair' Rides Again in Utah Canyon Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by votemout View Post
    where did bundy say the land the the .gov owns is his? and yes he does own land in that area just not some areas his cattle graze.
    SO your saying subsidizing no work F!$k's with healthcare is good but helping a hard working american to help the american people eat cheaper beef is bad?
    really???
    First Bundy tried to claim his Grandad, then his Dad, and now he bought the water rights to GOVERNMENT land. None of them did. He is attempting to claim 'ancestral rights' to the Federal lands- saying his maternal side ranched the Federal land BEFORE the BLM organised the land. He lied.

    The Gubmint helps thousands of ranchers produce beef- through USDA extension services, land grant university research, direct payments for croplands- there is no direct payment for grazing acres. Ranchers get many tax breaks. Howsomever the Gubmint should not let one lying, ungrateful criminal get away with using land for free when thousands of other ranchers obey the rules and make a profit. I obey the laws, make a profit... I OBJECT!!!!!!

    Now about what Bundy's herd numbers mean-

    Total beef herd size USA- 2013 approx 89.3 MILLION.
    number of cattle operations- over 700,000
    90% of herds are less than 100 head (Bundy's herd has many numbers attached to it, the lowest is 500 head- he owns 160 acres, takes approx 20 acres of land per cow in Nevada)
    33.6 MILLION beefs go to slaughter at official USDA certified plants
    Nevada ranks 37th in beef herd size. It is .52% of the national total.

    So the price of beef will NOT be affected if ALL of Bundy's cows are plowed into the ground.

    What would help make cheap beef is the end of a multiyear drought in the top 5 producing states (50%)

    So to sum up for those with the attention span of a gnat on crack-

    Bundy HAS claimed Federal land as his

    ALL his cows could die tomorrow and the price of ground chuck would never notice.

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    Re: 'Bundy Affair' Rides Again in Utah Canyon Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    They claim the drought forced prices to rise, all that, and probably received some money from the gubbermint they hate so much because their cattle suffered through the drought. Check it out, in 2011 over $303 million was given to cattle ranchers.
    I R A rancher... the payments have been sooooo substantial my herd went from 95 or so to 20 momma cows...

    The amount of money a RANCHER sees in direct payments from Uncla Sugar is low... remember many other people are involved with beefs between the momma cow dropping a calf and the steer meeting his end 18 to 24 months later. Something city folks should remember is the rancher has to be in the insurance program to receive anything but disaster money, so the amount paid out is only half the story- we pay IN to be eligible.

    The drought has been going on for years and every year herd numbers drop- last I heard to 1952 levels. Back then to USofA population was HALF what is is now. Not difficult math- twice as many folks wanting beef... what do you think prices will do?

    Now let's check out 2011- divided by the number of cows in this country that is roughly 8 bucks a head. 50 pounds of sack feed is more than that, but lets say it lasts for a week... the feds just gave some cow a week longer to stay on the place- IF every penny went to the rancher, which it doesn't.

    Please note your same source says 2102 was $58 million... but I assure you the drought was still hitting hard. To give an idea- this year's cattle sorting and spring sell off on our ranch- we took 2 trailer loads to Apache Livestock Auction (we used to haul 6)- Apache used to sell for two days each week and both days run into the night. These days it is one day and they finish up in time to get a nap before dinner...

    The 6 trailer loads averaged 300 to 500 a head depending on the number of old momma cows we were getting rid of- the 2 loads this year averaged 1000 a head and some were REAL thin momma cows. The one day sale started at 10 (instead of 8) and was done by 3:30 (instead of dark)

    Doesn't look good for cheap burgers for a few more years...

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    Re: 'Bundy Affair' Rides Again in Utah Canyon Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    I R A rancher... the payments have been sooooo substantial my herd went from 95 or so to 20 momma cows...

    The amount of money a RANCHER sees in direct payments from Uncla Sugar is low... remember many other people are involved with beefs between the momma cow dropping a calf and the steer meeting his end 18 to 24 months later. Something city folks should remember is the rancher has to be in the insurance program to receive anything but disaster money, so the amount paid out is only half the story- we pay IN to be eligible.

    The drought has been going on for years and every year herd numbers drop- last I heard to 1952 levels. Back then to USofA population was HALF what is is now. Not difficult math- twice as many folks wanting beef... what do you think prices will do?

    Now let's check out 2011- divided by the number of cows in this country that is roughly 8 bucks a head. 50 pounds of sack feed is more than that, but lets say it lasts for a week... the feds just gave some cow a week longer to stay on the place- IF every penny went to the rancher, which it doesn't.

    Please note your same source says 2102 was $58 million... but I assure you the drought was still hitting hard. To give an idea- this year's cattle sorting and spring sell off on our ranch- we took 2 trailer loads to Apache Livestock Auction (we used to haul 6)- Apache used to sell for two days each week and both days run into the night. These days it is one day and they finish up in time to get a nap before dinner...

    The 6 trailer loads averaged 300 to 500 a head depending on the number of old momma cows we were getting rid of- the 2 loads this year averaged 1000 a head and some were REAL thin momma cows. The one day sale started at 10 (instead of 8) and was done by 3:30 (instead of dark)

    Doesn't look good for cheap burgers for a few more years...
    Beef prices are already too high, we now (my honey and I) eat more chicken and pork, but let me draw your attention to page # 8 of this circular, Mexican steaks, T - bone, $4.99 per pound.

    Piggly Wiggly #209 Circulars

    IMO, American beef prices are inflated for some reason, possibly beyond our control. OIL, speculators drove up oil prices in the market a few years ago, we could be seeing this with foods too.

    Speculators are driving up gas prices - Opinion - Mar. 21, 2012

    Markets.

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    Re: 'Bundy Affair' Rides Again in Utah Canyon Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Beef prices are already too high, we now (my honey and I) eat more chicken and pork, but let me draw your attention to page # 8 of this circular, Mexican steaks, T - bone, $4.99 per pound. IMO, American beef prices are inflated for some reason, possibly beyond our control. OIL, speculators drove up oil prices in the market a few years ago, we could be seeing this with foods too.
    My wife and I don't eat beef except at the local steak house- costs about the same as raw at the supermarket but comes cooked and with sides!

    Our red meat is venison I shot and costs about $2 a pound in the freezer. We eat a lot of chicken.

    ALL commodities are subject to 'rapist' speculation due to changes in the commodity market to bring in more investors. A few years ago the pre-harvest price for a bushel of hard red winter wheat was 12 bucks. Usually 4 bucks. Lots of reasons given for this, but they were BS to everyone with HR wheat. When it came time for farmers to dump their wheat at the local COOP guess where the price was.... 5 bucks! But we knew the wheat was there and there was no shortfall or huge demand suddenly from China- speculators.

    But the price of beef has been on a steady rise for years... no rush of money driving prices up like in oil.

    I wish it was a case of speculators... then I'd have those 6 trailer loads of beefs to sell at 1000 a head instead of only 2!

    Now about Mexican beef. First Mexico's herd numbers are crashing due to overproduction and drought. They are having a massive sell-off like we did 4 or 5 years ago. They primarily produce calves to be fattened here in the US- they produce very little 'retail' meats. Approx 7 million head to feedlots in the US, 1.4 to slaughter in their home country for the US market compared to 30+ million we slaughter of our own. Mexico produces approx 4% of the world's beef and the US 25%.

    While the majority of US beef is raised on private lands the majority of Mexican beef is raised 'Bundy' style on public lands where payments, right to use is a whole can of worms.

    Several 'Latin' Nations have tried to enter the US market- Argentina and Brazil were pushed the most. Turns out USofA folks don't like the taste or texture of grass fed beef. These two nations have backed away from 'gaucho' beef premium cuts to medium processed cuts like canned meat.

    My thought is you can't beat 5 bucks a pound for T-bone... remember I got $1.50 a pound for an animal half of which will never see a plate. 7% of that animal is t-bones or club steaks. Difficult to see how a Mexican beef can sell so cheap when I got the equiv of $3 a pound for the steer.

    Try one and let us know how it tastes....

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    Re: 'Bundy Affair' Rides Again in Utah Canyon Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    My wife and I don't eat beef except at the local steak house- costs about the same as raw at the supermarket but comes cooked and with sides!

    Our red meat is venison I shot and costs about $2 a pound in the freezer. We eat a lot of chicken.

    ALL commodities are subject to 'rapist' speculation due to changes in the commodity market to bring in more investors. A few years ago the pre-harvest price for a bushel of hard red winter wheat was 12 bucks. Usually 4 bucks. Lots of reasons given for this, but they were BS to everyone with HR wheat. When it came time for farmers to dump their wheat at the local COOP guess where the price was.... 5 bucks! But we knew the wheat was there and there was no shortfall or huge demand suddenly from China- speculators.

    But the price of beef has been on a steady rise for years... no rush of money driving prices up like in oil.

    I wish it was a case of speculators... then I'd have those 6 trailer loads of beefs to sell at 1000 a head instead of only 2!

    Now about Mexican beef. First Mexico's herd numbers are crashing due to overproduction and drought. They are having a massive sell-off like we did 4 or 5 years ago. They primarily produce calves to be fattened here in the US- they produce very little 'retail' meats. Approx 7 million head to feedlots in the US, 1.4 to slaughter in their home country for the US market compared to 30+ million we slaughter of our own. Mexico produces approx 4% of the world's beef and the US 25%.

    While the majority of US beef is raised on private lands the majority of Mexican beef is raised 'Bundy' style on public lands where payments, right to use is a whole can of worms.

    Several 'Latin' Nations have tried to enter the US market- Argentina and Brazil were pushed the most. Turns out USofA folks don't like the taste or texture of grass fed beef. These two nations have backed away from 'gaucho' beef premium cuts to medium processed cuts like canned meat.

    My thought is you can't beat 5 bucks a pound for T-bone... remember I got $1.50 a pound for an animal half of which will never see a plate. 7% of that animal is t-bones or club steaks. Difficult to see how a Mexican beef can sell so cheap when I got the equiv of $3 a pound for the steer.

    Try one and let us know how it tastes....
    Mexican beef is tough. We've had those steaks on many occasions. In fact, some of the steaks we purchased living in NM was from Mexico. You gotta beat it with a textured meat hammer, or, cut it into 1/2 inch strips and marinate in soy, teriyaki and worcestershire sauces overnight, cook indirect on a Weber with smoke chips, put 'em in a plastic bag after they cool off, the perfect jerkey snack for the trail.

    The one thing about Mexican beef is there's little to no fat in the grain.

    Also, my doctor told me not to eat beef because beef is fed corn, which is supposed to be bad for you, too much fat. She told me to eat goat meat, claiming it was much better for me than beef or pork...

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    Re: 'Bundy Affair' Rides Again in Utah Canyon Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Mexican beef is tough. We've had those steaks on many occasions. In fact, some of the steaks we purchased living in NM was from Mexico. You gotta beat it with a textured meat hammer, or, cut it into 1/2 inch strips and marinate in soy, teriyaki and worcestershire sauces overnight, cook indirect on a Weber with smoke chips, put 'em in a plastic bag after they cool off, the perfect jerkey snack for the trail. The one thing about Mexican beef is there's little to no fat in the grain. Also, my doctor told me not to eat beef because beef is fed corn, which is supposed to be bad for you, too much fat. She told me to eat goat meat, claiming it was much better for me than beef or pork...
    All that sort of defeats the purpose of a T-bone, you are using it as a flank steak which is MUCH cheaper. I've had T-bones where you could cut the tenderloin meat with a fork. That fat in the muscle's grain is the last fat a body can take. It means the steer was morbidly obese in human terms. That marbling, as we call it, is what makes so-so cuts juicy and tasty. The problem Argie and Brazilian beef ran into is Americans rejected the taste of grass only cattle as 'gamey'.

    Corn isn't the only grain fed to steers in the feedlot- is why we call them grain fed rather than corn fed. Soybeans and alfalfa is fed as well. In order to hold the fat in the muscle that muscle must be extensive- if not then shrinkage while cooking occurs. People feel robbed if their meat shrinks a great deal- which is why cheap ground beef shrinks so- water is added at the store to gain cheap weight, and the meat has not solid matrix to prevent collapse as the fat renders out.

    The last 300 pounds or so of gain in a steer is the most expensive hands down. Rather large amounts of corn, soybeans, milo, alfalfa, quality hay, and buffers (pepto for cattle) are fed to make the fat build-up that gives the taste and texture Americans demand.

    Goat may taste 'gamey' due to a lack of fat in the muscle, intact males, 'Billy' goats, are going to be tougher and gamier.Young does are probably the best tasting. A little corn in their diet will 'sweeten' the meat without marbling it. Red meat isn't bad, it is the marbling of fat we can't seem to get enough of that is 'bad'.

    Dunno about goat, not a fan myself... I prefer venison...

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    Re: 'Bundy Affair' Rides Again in Utah Canyon Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by votemout View Post
    where did bundy say the land the the .gov owns is his? and yes he does own land in that area just not some areas his cattle graze.
    SO your saying subsidizing no work F!$k's with healthcare is good but helping a hard working american to help the american people eat cheaper beef is bad?
    really???
    Its public land managed by the BLM. Public lands belong to us right? SO we all are claiming that land is rightfully ours.

    I said nothing about subsidizing the healthcare system. But since you brought it up, no I do not support subsidizing the healthcare system.

    I am guessing that you figured that I am a leftist, left winger, liberal, Obama supporter or some **** like that. Sorry to disappoint you but I am not. SO you might want to readjust your argument accordingly or in this case actually get one.

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    Re: 'Bundy Affair' Rides Again in Utah Canyon Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    I know of a cattle rancher in Wyoming, they have quite the spread, all private land. When their grasses start showing signs of being over grazed, they're removed from the grazing area and fed with straw, hay and other store bought feeds.

    I did some searching yesterday because I'd never heard of coyote weed, which is very poisonous, and takes the place of natural grasses caused by over grazing. There are also other plant life that are undesired and unwanted on grazing lands.

    You're absolutely correct, this isn't about grazing. This is about people being anti US Government, they want what are presently government and public owned lands to be turned over to state control, and to allow states to manage lands, even the ones described in the article, the lands where ancient artifacts can still be seen. Bad idea. This argument has been brewing since the early 1990's, this isn't something that began yesterday.
    Actually they want all federal land to be sold off and privatized. Of course ranchers like Bundy believe that the land should be given to them.

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    Re: 'Bundy Affair' Rides Again in Utah Canyon Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Dozens of Protesters Ride in off-Limits Canyon - ABC News

    So the militia is stirring the pot some more...

    Interesting, very interesting. But no arrests.
    What does Clive Bundy have to do with a fraicous in Utah?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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