• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegiance

Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

The thing about the majority of US flag shirts is that they are in fact a violation of flag code. But hey yeah, nobody cares about that either.:doh

Some of them are, yes.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

No it didn't. Rulings only apply to very similar cases. In all likelihood, a challenge by this kid or his parents to this action will end up with the school losing because there is no legitimate "safety" concern involved with this kid not reciting the pledge. In fact, I'm pretty sure such cases have already been ruled on in the past.

Students Not Required to Participate in the Pledge of Allegiance | ACLU of Oregon

A presedence set in 2014 over-rules a court ruling from 1943.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

How many times must a pledge be given? Do you recite your wedding vows to your significant-other each morning?

Not sure why you would ask me that. Was there a point?
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

To whomever and whatever they decide to have allegiance to. No one should be required to make a pledge to anything if they don't want to.

I never said anyone should be required to pledge to anything. I asked the other poster who the future generations should have an allegiance to.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Μολὼν λαβέ;1063258356 said:
I wonder if this Texas school requires non-citizen students like foreign exchange students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance?
Great question.


To me, there's something unnerving about 30 people reciting a pre-scripted pledge at the same time facing a flag with their hand over their hearts. It's creepy.

One can be a patriot without being a drone.
I never liked saying the pledge when I was a kid, and still don't care for it now. It's not that I necessarily disagree with the intent. I dislike the drone-like rote mentality. To me, actions are more telling than public displays of adherence.


So in Texas schools you get suspended for not saying the PoA to the American flag, while in California schools you get suspended for wearing a t-shirt of an American flag.

Telling.
:lol: Nice catch.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

The kid is standing up for liberty through civil disobedience. He is a true American patriot in the tradition of the founding fathers.

Ever read Thoreau?
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Slippery slopes suck, huh? With the court judgment that schools can do whatever the hell they want, in response to the freedom of expression of the students, they really opened Pandora's box.

IMO, this kids sounds like a spoiled little **** ass, that will make a good, obedient Libbo one day. He probably hates America...but...I certainly support his right to express himself and think it's totally ridiculous to suspend the kid, because he refuses to say The Pledge.

Spoiled? I wouldn't say it because they added "under god" to it.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

A presedence set in 2014 over-rules a court ruling from 1943.

Not when you are talking a judge (lower court) making a ruling on something completely different than what the SCOTUS ruled on and the thing in contention here, which are the same basic thing. You are trying to overreach so far with that other ruling that was made (which, for the record, I believe was wrong, and we'll have to see where it goes) that is not nearly the same thing as this, which matches almost exactly with an actual earlier ruling by the SCOTUS.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

The kid is standing up for liberty through civil disobedience. He is a true American patriot in the tradition of the founding fathers.

Ever read Thoreau?

Plenty.

I disagree with your assessment of his patriotism.

But I also disagree with the suspension of children for not reciting nonsensical gibberish of "you must conform"-ities...

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

We're not a republic, there is no liberty and justice for all, we're divided as can be, and most of us are godless savages regardless of where we spend our Sunday mornings...
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Slippery slopes suck, huh? With the court judgment that schools can do whatever the hell they want, in response to the freedom of expression of the students, they really opened Pandora's box.

IMO, this kids sounds like a spoiled little **** ass, that will make a good, obedient Libbo one day. He probably hates America...but...I certainly support his right to express himself and think it's totally ridiculous to suspend the kid, because he refuses to say The Pledge.

I have a hard time believing this story. TEACHERS cannot suspend students or even recommend suspension. That's up to the principle to decide and enforce.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

I have a hard time believing this story. TEACHERS cannot suspend students or even recommend suspension. That's up to the principle to decide and enforce.

It actually does say that the principal suspended him, not the teacher.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

It actually does say that the principal suspended him, not the teacher.

Must have missed that. Thanks :)
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Must have missed that. Thanks :)

No problem, I wanted to check once you mentioned it because it would have been very suspicious if it had been the teacher.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Plenty.

I disagree with your assessment of his patriotism.

But I also disagree with the suspension of children for not reciting nonsensical gibberish of "you must conform"-ities...

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

We're not a republic, there is no liberty and justice for all, we're divided as can be, and most of us are godless savages regardless of where we spend our Sunday mornings...

You've expressed your opinion, the kid has a right to express his.

Do you think it's OK to mandate that anyone recite the pledge you've just responded to?
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Not sure why you would ask me that. Was there a point?

what would be the benefit of explaining what you are unable or unwilling to decern on your own? [rhetorical]
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

You've expressed your opinion, the kid has a right to express his.

Do you think it's OK to mandate that anyone recite the pledge you've just responded to?

There is a big difference that I don't think you're thinking about but is very important, so important in fact that its demise (this frame of thought) is one of the main causes for the degradation of our society.

I'm an adult, the kid is a kid.

His opinion doesn't old the same weight as mine.

Why?

Because HE'S A KID!

I think that you do a great injustice to the child by not having him say the pledge.

What injustice is that?

You're not teaching the kid one of life's most important lessons.

Sometimes you've got to do things you don't want to, and some times that what life is, one vile friggin task after another.

When he learns this lesson maybe his opinion will carry more weight, but until then....
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

The pledge has always been a little too sieg heil for my taste which is why I don't support it being in schools. In Canada the children have to listen to the national anthem first thing in the morning and I've had my children omitted from that too.

They go to school to get an education not salute big brother.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Slippery slopes suck, huh? With the court judgment that schools can do whatever the hell they want, in response to the freedom of expression of the students, they really opened Pandora's box.

Schools should not be socialized, and crap like this would never happen.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

The pledge has always been a little too sieg heil for my taste which is why I don't support it being in schools. In Canada the children have to listen to the national anthem first thing in the morning and I've had my children omitted from that too. They go to school to get an education not salute big brother.

Funny you should mention sieg heil.... originally the hand salute that went with the pledge was NOT hand on heart- but arm extended, palm down, fingers pointed... called the Bellamy Salute after the author of the original Pledge. It can into vogue at the end of the 19th century and ended during WWII.

Bellamy Heil ya'll!!!!!! :shock:
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Funny you should mention sieg heil....

Well in practice they're not all that different.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Well in practice they're not all that different.

State-worship is the same everywhere.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

There is a big difference that I don't think you're thinking about but is very important, so important in fact that its demise (this frame of thought) is one of the main causes for the degradation of our society.

I'm an adult, the kid is a kid.

His opinion doesn't old the same weight as mine.

Why?

Because HE'S A KID!

I think that you do a great injustice to the child by not having him say the pledge.

What injustice is that?

You're not teaching the kid one of life's most important lessons.

Sometimes you've got to do things you don't want to, and some times that what life is, one vile friggin task after another.

When he learns this lesson maybe his opinion will carry more weight, but until then....

Or, phrased another way: Don't resist our attempts at indoctrination.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Benevolent nationalism in schools is a good thing, but leave it to a fool to make it meaningless by having it strictly enforced through punishment.

Personally, I would abandon the pledge in the schools after elementary school.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Slippery slopes suck, huh?
With the court judgment that schools can do whatever the hell they want, in response to the freedom of expression of the students, they really opened Pandora's box.

IMO, this kids sounds like a spoiled little **** ass, that will make a good, obedient Libbo one day. He probably hates America...but...I certainly support his right to express himself and think it's totally ridiculous to suspend the kid, because he refuses to say The Pledge.




Exactly how patriotic and nationalistic is anyone who is forced to express patriotism and nationalism?

I believe that any school that enforces bull**** like this isn't accomplishing a damned thing.
 
Back
Top Bottom