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Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegiance

Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

apdst said:
Slippery slopes suck, huh?
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 With the court judgment that schools can do whatever the hell they want, in response to the freedom of expression of the students, they really opened Pandora's box.

IMO, this kids sounds like a spoiled little **** ass, that will make a good, obedient Libbo one day. He probably hates America...but...I certainly support his right to express himself and think it's totally ridiculous to suspend the kid, because he refuses to say The Pledge.
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What really sucks is I seem to recall something in that pledge about 'liberty and justice for all'.

Where's that kid's liberty and justice?
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Fiddytree said:
Benevolent nationalism in schools is a good thing, but leave it to a fool to make it meaningless by having it strictly enforced through punishment.

Personally, I would abandon the pledge in the schools after elementary school.
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I would abandon socialized schools altogether.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Jetboogieman said:
There shouldn't be a pledge anyway... It has a certain, fascistic tinge to it I would find uncomfortable.
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Yeah, I've never been big on making children recite loyalty oaths.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

ChezC3 said:
There is a big difference that I don't think you're thinking about but is very important, so important in fact that its demise (this frame of thought) is one of the main causes for the degradation of our society.

I'm an adult, the kid is a kid.

His opinion doesn't old the same weight as mine.

Why?

Because HE'S A KID!

I think that you do a great injustice to the child by not having him say the pledge.

What injustice is that?

You're not teaching the kid one of life's most important lessons.

Sometimes you've got to do things you don't want to, and some times that what life is, one vile friggin task after another.

When he learns this lesson maybe his opinion will carry more weight, but until then....
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Yes, that is a big difference.

The kid, being a kid, needs to learn also that there are times when standing up to authority takes courage, but is the right thing to do.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Peter Grimm said:
All the same, to me America stands for freedom. It stands for everything Nazi Germany wasn't. While I appreciate the good intentions behind something like the pledge of allegiance, I'd rather not see our kids become drones of the state, absentmindedly pledging to a flag just because.

I want American kids to think for themselves. To question their government, and to take ownership of the country they live in. Don't just pledge allegiance, that's not enough. Take ownership of this great country and understand that you will one day inherit it. Don't pledge allegiance, pledge to become a leader.

Pledge to make this county better than you found it. Don't pledge to follow without using your brain. Pledge to shape this country in to something you would be proud to live in, something you would be proud to raise your own kids in.

I don't want to raise a generation of followers. To me, that's what the pledge of allegiance represents.
I want to raise a generation of forward thinking leaders who will take their inheritance and make something out of it.
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And a few people would like to see everyone fall in line and follow the leader over the cliff.

Different strokes for different folks.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

radcen said:
Or, phrased another way: Don't resist our attempts at indoctrination.
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"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Dittohead not! said:
Yes, that is a big difference.

The kid, being a kid, needs to learn also that there are times when standing up to authority takes courage, but is the right thing to do.
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I can agree with that.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Henry David said:
Actions speak louder than words, and the school's actions demonstrate that when they tell the children that americans are free, the school is lying
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Basically what the school is saying is that the students are free except when the school says that they are not free.

I don't believe that that will fly in court.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

ChezC3 said:
So in Texas schools you get suspended for not saying the PoA to the American flag, while in California schools you get suspended for wearing a t-shirt of an American flag.
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Telling.
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Where would you rather go to school?
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Fiddytree said:
Benevolent nationalism in schools is a good thing, but leave it to a fool to make it meaningless by having it strictly enforced through punishment.

Personally, I would abandon the pledge in the schools after elementary school.
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I don't believe I said the Pledge after the 2nd Grade.

Also, I have to thank my teachers for "making" me say the Pledge. As a yoot, I could not articulate the sibilant (s) which was detected (by my thaying the Pledge to the United Thtatth...) and corrected.

If I didn't think this entire nonsense was one born from ill intent I might likely agree on the side of the child...
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

apdst said:
Slippery slopes suck, huh? With the court judgment that schools can do whatever the hell they want, in response to the freedom of expression of the students, they really opened Pandora's box.

IMO, this kids sounds like a spoiled little **** ass, that will make a good, obedient Libbo one day. He probably hates America...but...I certainly support his right to express himself and think it's totally ridiculous to suspend the kid, because he refuses to say The Pledge.
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Well the pledge is one of the signs of a fascist nation, especially if you are forced to say it.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

It's all bull****, he was not suspended for refusing to recite the Pledge. He was suspended for being a teenage attention whore who wouldn't stand quietly while others recited the pledge. This won't go to SCOTUS, or anywhere.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

clownboy said:
It's all bull****, he was not suspended for refusing to recite the Pledge. He was suspended for being a teenage attention whore who wouldn't stand quietly while others recited the pledge. This won't go to SCOTUS, or anywhere.
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Why should he be required to even stand quietly?
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

PeteEU said:
Well the pledge is one of the signs of a fascist nation, especially if you are forced to say it.
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Is it really? ONLY facist countries have a pledge of allegiance to their national colors?
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

clownboy said:
It's all bull****, he was not suspended for refusing to recite the Pledge. He was suspended for being a teenage attention whore who wouldn't stand quietly while others recited the pledge. This won't go to SCOTUS, or anywhere.
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He does not have to stand either. The ruling made in 1943 included wording that said that students could not be forced to show allegiance by word or action. The action here would be standing. It was in no way necessary for him to stand up if he was not going to recite the pledge anyway (unless the school is using standing for the pledge to satisfy some sadistic need of one or more of the staff). It was not necessary for his educational needs, nor for safety or security or even disciplinary reasons of the school for him to stand for the pledge.

They can't even claim he was a legitimate distraction when he had been doing it for quite some time, if not the whole year without complaints on his "behavior". The distraction would have only come from the teacher's reaction to him and insistence that he stand up.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

apdst said:
Is it really? ONLY facist countries have a pledge of allegiance to their national colors?
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Socialists do too. Bellamy was a smart man and a socialist. Personally, I think it would be great if you could say "the socialist had a good idea!"
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

radcen said:
Why should he be required to even stand quietly?
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Because the rest of the class is.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

roguenuke said:
He does not have to stand either. The ruling made in 1943 included wording that said that students could not be forced to show allegiance by word or action. The action here would be standing. It was in no way necessary for him to stand up if he was not going to recite the pledge anyway (unless the school is using standing for the pledge to satisfy some sadistic need of one or more of the staff). It was not necessary for his educational needs, nor for safety or security or even disciplinary reasons of the school for him to stand for the pledge.

They can't even claim he was a legitimate distraction when he had been doing it for quite some time, if not the whole year without complaints on his "behavior". The distraction would have only come from the teacher's reaction to him and insistence that he stand up.
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Nonsense, the ruling did not say in any way that he cannot be required to stand with all the other children. Yes, it IS a disciplinary issue. Way too much being read into this.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

clownboy said:
It's all bull****, he was not suspended for refusing to recite the Pledge. He was suspended for being a teenage attention whore who wouldn't stand quietly while others recited the pledge. This won't go to SCOTUS, or anywhere.
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If nothing else though this shows that Texas really has gone way far to the right since I left in the late 70's. I would not stand for the pledge or the prayer (yes the prayer was still announced over the intercom every morning) and I only got harassed by teachers, once sent to the vp's office, but that was about it. No one threatened suspension or expulsion over it.

As for me, I simply refuse to pledge to a country in such a fashion... well I suppose there might be a country wherein I'd pledge, but it sure wouldn't be this country at any time during my life. As a country, we are way too much of a bully and a warmonger to other countries, and too much of an oligarchy within. In order to get my allegiance a country has to earn it, just as individuals have to earn my respect.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

radcen said:
So? That's it?
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There doesn't need to be any more. Teacher asks all students to stand. One student doesn't.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

Summerwind said:
If nothing else though this shows that Texas really has gone way far to the right since I left in the late 70's. I would not stand for the pledge or the prayer (yes the prayer was still announced over the intercom every morning) and I only got harassed by teachers, once sent to the vp's office, but that was about it. No one threatened suspension or expulsion over it.

As for me, I simply refuse to pledge to a country in such a fashion... well I suppose there might be a country wherein I'd pledge, but it sure wouldn't be this country at any time during my life. As a country, we are way too much of a bully and a warmonger to other countries, and too much of an oligarchy within. In order to get my allegiance a country has to earn it, just as individuals have to earn my respect.
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The bit about why you chose not to stand is superfluous. The teachers you chose to honor with your mini-teenage protest/fit gave you slack. Perhaps all the rest of the time you weren't an asshat, so they let your teen angst go. This kid may not be the joy to have in the classroom that you were.
 
Re: Texas high school suspends student — for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegia

radcen said:
That isn't enough. Not in this context.
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Absolutely it is.
 
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