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Thread: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

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    Re: Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban

    This is fantastic news!
    Already a thread going here: http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...riage-ban.html


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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Just because you have a right does not mean you can force people to do things, especially certain things related to religious practices. The SCOTUS declared marriage a right in Loving v VA and then again in several other rulings, including Turner v Safley and Zablocki v Redhail. And yet, churches are still allowed to turn away any couple, for any reason from getting a marriage in their church or performed by their clergyman. In fact, not too long ago, a black couple was denied a marriage in a church because some of the congregation didn't want them to be allowed to marry in the church. (The minister even did the wedding for them still, just in a different church.) The most common practice for churches/clergy when it comes to weddings is to deny performance of a wedding ceremony based on religion.
    the constitution recognizes two different rights..

    natural rights which come from our humanity.

    civil rights / legal rights/ IE..privileges which are dispensed by government to the people, these privileges are to be dispensed in an equal fashion to all people [EQULITY under the law], unless [as you and I have discussed before] the state can show it is in their interest not to give a person a privilege.

    natural rights do not NEVER violate privileges, they have no power of force behind them to force another citizen to provide a good or service.

    privileges created by government do sometimes violates the natural rights of people .......because they are created by governments.

    therefore any privilege government creates and dispenses... which violates natural rights....life, liberty, and property of others citizen's is unconstitutional

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Its about being treated equal under the law.
    that is correct it about being treated equal, though the use of privileges and immunities....

    the 14th directs STATES, to treat all of its people equal when it creates civil rights...IE. PRIVLEDGES.....meaning a state cannot make Jim crow laws.

    it does not direct citizens or business to treat everyone equal.......because they do not make laws.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the constitution recognizes two different rights..

    natural rights which come from our humanity.

    civil rights / legal rights/ IE..privileges which are dispensed by government to the people, these privileges are to be dispensed in an equal fashion to all people [EQULITY under the law], unless [as you and I have discussed before] the state can show it is in their interest not to give a person a privilege.

    natural rights do not NEVER violate privileges, they have no power of force behind them to force another citizen to provide a good or service.

    privileges created by government do sometimes violates the natural rights of people .......because they are created by governments.

    therefore any privilege government creates and dispenses... which violates natural rights....life, liberty, and property of others citizen's is unconstitutional
    The original constitution violated "natural rights" by your definition.


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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    that is correct it about being treated equal, though the use of privileges and immunities....

    the 14th directs STATES, to treat all of its people equal when it creates civil rights...IE. PRIVLEDGES.....meaning a state cannot make Jim crow laws.

    it does not direct citizens or business to treat everyone equal.......because they do not make laws.
    You are right it does not permit businesses directly. It overrides all laws that permit businesses that do not direct them to treat people equally. " It nullifies and makes void all State legislation, and State action of every kind, which impairs the privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States, or which injures them in life, liberty, or property without due process of law, or which denies to any of them the equal protection of the laws."


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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    The original constitution violated "natural rights" by your definition.
    do it did not..... because blacks [slaves] were property...they were not citizens, and had no natural rights or privileges.

    voting was not a right under the founders, it was a privilege which you can have, if you must pay taxes and own property...why was this a condition?

    because it you don't pay taxes, and don't own any property, then you will use your vote, to take property from those who have it..........this from the founders.

    Madison -The right of suffrage [civil right] is a fundamental Article in Republican Constitutions. The regulation of it is, at the same time, a task of peculiar delicacy. Allow the right exclusively to property, and the rights of persons may be oppressed. The feudal polity alone sufficiently proves it. Extend it equally to all, and the rights of property or the claims of justice may be overruled by a majority without property, or interested in measures of injustice. Of this abundant proof is afforded by other popular Govts. and is not without examples in our own, particularly in the laws impairing the obligation of contracts.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the constitution recognizes two different rights..

    natural rights which come from our humanity.

    civil rights / legal rights/ IE..privileges which are dispensed by government to the people, these privileges are to be dispensed in an equal fashion to all people [EQULITY under the law], unless [as you and I have discussed before] the state can show it is in their interest not to give a person a privilege.

    natural rights do not NEVER violate privileges, they have no power of force behind them to force another citizen to provide a good or service.

    privileges created by government do sometimes violates the natural rights of people .......because they are created by governments.

    therefore any privilege government creates and dispenses... which violates natural rights....life, liberty, and property of others citizen's is unconstitutional
    Marriage is a natural right if you view it as a contract between two individuals that is simply recognized and enforced by the state because it generally pertains to the property, life, and liberty of the couple.

    Marriage is a civil right if you view it as a license granted by the state and regulated to the extent that it can only violate Constitutional protections if doing so serves rational and legitimate state interests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    do it did not..... because blacks [slaves] were property...they were not citizens, and had no natural rights or privileges.
    So it depends on the time. That is exactly whats wrong with our Constitution.

    voting was not a right under the founders, it was a privilege which you can have, if you must pay taxes and own property...why was this a condition?
    Also what was wrong with our Constitution

    because it you don't pay taxes, and don't own any property, then you will use your vote, to take property from those who have it..........this from the founders.
    Or it what was, if you dont have a dick or land, or were white, then **** you!


    Madison -The right of suffrage [civil right] is a fundamental Article in Republican Constitutions. The regulation of it is, at the same time, a task of peculiar delicacy. Allow the right exclusively to property, and the rights of persons may be oppressed. The feudal polity alone sufficiently proves it. Extend it equally to all, and the rights of property or the claims of justice may be overruled by a majority without property, or interested in measures of injustice. Of this abundant proof is afforded by other popular Govts. and is not without examples in our own, particularly in the laws impairing the obligation of contracts.
    In other words, if you were'nt a black, or a woman, or a peasant, THEN WE WILL DOMINATE YOU!


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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    You are right it does not permit businesses directly. It overrides all laws that permit businesses that do not direct them to treat people equally. " It nullifies and makes void all State legislation, and State action of every kind, which impairs the privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States, or which injures them in life, liberty, or property without due process of law, or which denies to any of them the equal protection of the laws."
    state government creates privileges for the people...business does not.

    equality UINDER the law means..."all laws created by government will be applied to every person equally, no one will be exempt from the law.

    in other words, ....you cannot be held accountable for breaking a law, and I am NOT held accountable if I perform the same action you did.

    there is no EQULITY BY LAW.....

    government cannot give you a privilege to use on my property, which violates my natural right i have .....because I am on my property

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    state government creates privileges for the people...business does not.
    That throws out the whole idea of federalism then.

    equality UINDER the law means..."all laws created by government will be applied to every person equally, no one will be exempt from the law.
    Uhhh quick question.. How did you get the end of that quote?

    in other words, ....you cannot be held accountable for breaking a law, and I am NOT held accountable if I perform the same action you did.
    Sooo.. If you break a law, you are not accountable? And neither am I? What the flying ****?

    there is no EQULITY BY LAW.....
    So you are fundamentally against our Constitution?



    government cannot give you a privilege to use on my property, which violates my natural right i have .....because I am on my property
    Except they have the right to tax you. Have fun arguing that in court. Or hell go hang out with Bundy.


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