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Thread: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    no i am not forced to operate a business, ..but i have a right to commerce...the buying and selling of goods, from those who will deal with me.

    regulations are created by government to see that the health and safety of the public is not at risk......along with tax regulations.........there are no moral regulations...that would be unlawful....because government cannot dictate morals, ..
    um the only people violating a right to commerce with those who will deal with them are the bigots

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    nope definitely not for total liberty at the expense of others
    at the expense of others?......that makes not sense...at the expens of others would be a rights violation, anyone getting forced to do something is the one violated.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    um the only people violating a right to commerce with those who will deal with them are the bigots
    people don't violate right to commerce

    governments violate right to commerce, people only commit crimes.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    people don't violate right to commerce

    governments violate right to commerce, people only commit crimes.
    well governments letting people do business with you who want to. so no violation or crime every one wins

    the Irish Catholics avoid discrimination and the bigots make money

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    well governments letting people do business with you who want to. so no violation or crime every one wins

    the Irish Catholics avoid discrimination and the bigots make money
    guy i understand you don't like bigots and discrimination...i think its wrong myself....however a person has to stick to the principles of rights....not how one feels about things.

    if we as a people prohibited everything we did not like people doing when they excised their rights.....no rights would exist.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    guy i understand you don't like bigots and discrimination...i think its wrong myself....however a person has to stick to the principles of rights....not how one feels about things.

    if we as a people prohibited everything we did not like people doing when they excised their rights.....no rights would exist.
    as other posters on hear have mentioned its legal for the government to set regulation on business this is no different

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    as other posters on hear have mentioned its legal for the government to set regulation on business this is no different
    its not constitutional..but hey the federal government and states don't follow it.

    because as i stated you cannot exercise a right on another citizen, to apply force to him.

    you can apply force to a government to make them do things..because they don't have rights but powers...rights override powers

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    its not constitutional..but hey the federal government and states don't follow it.

    because as i stated you cannot exercise a right on another citizen, to apply force to him.

    you can apply force to a government to make them do things..because they don't have rights but powers...rights override powers
    It is completely constitutional to regulate business for the good of society. There are definitely some limitations to it, but we also have to recognize that people are dependent on other people in our society. This means that it would be wrong and cause harm and hardship to others if some people are allowed to deny others services or goods based on no other reason except personal bigotry or dislike of certain characteristics of a person.

    And yes, I understand that many wrongs have been justified as being for the "good of society". But some things just are. If we were perfect, we wouldn't need to regulate anyone's behavior with laws. Unfortunately, we are not perfect. Not even close.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It is completely constitutional to regulate business for the good of society. There are definitely some limitations to it, but we also have to recognize that people are dependent on other people in our society. This means that it would be wrong and cause harm and hardship to others if some people are allowed to deny others services or goods based on no other reason except personal bigotry or dislike of certain characteristics of a person.

    And yes, I understand that many wrongs have been justified as being for the "good of society". But some things just are. If we were perfect, we wouldn't need to regulate anyone's behavior with laws. Unfortunately, we are not perfect. Not even close.
    i did not say regulation of commerce cannot take place, however you cannot make a commerce law, which violates a right.

    the commerce clause was made binding in 1788, the bill of rights in 1791... [ which was meant for the sole purpose of preventing the powers of government from violating rights of the people] ...which make it unconstitutional for government to make any law which violates the rights of people.

    that right being: right to property

    right to association

    right to commerce.

    government is to secure those rights...not to make laws infringing on them no matter how good you think government laws make society.

    i could say its makes a better society to guarantee every person....food, and water...........however that would be unconstitutional also.
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-15-14 at 03:42 PM.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i did not say regulation of commerce cannot take place, however you cannot make a commerce law, which violates a right.

    the commerce clause was made binding in 1788, the bill of rights in 1791... [ which was meant for the sole purpose of preventing the powers of government from violating rights of the people] ...which make it unconstitutional for government to make any law which violates the rights of people.

    that right being: right to property

    right to association

    right to commerce.

    government is to secure those rights...not to make laws infringing on them no matter how good you think government laws make society.

    i could say its makes a better society to guarantee every person....food, and water...........however that would be unconstitutional also.
    So then we couldn't make a lot of laws we have because they can violate rights in one way or another. We couldn't outlaw yelling "fire" in a crowded building since we have a right to say whatever we want. In fact, most laws dealing with copyright would be unenforceable because it could easily be argued that there is the right to free speech (or expression, including written expression of speech) and not a right to ensure that what you come up with, creatively is guaranteed to only make you money. We couldn't outlaw any religious practices no matter how harmful or burdensome they may be. We couldn't outlaw any sort of defamation. We could not outlaw even nuclear missiles being owned by private citizens. We couldn't have any form of punishment since technically all punishment could be considered "cruel and unusual" to someone. There are many more.

    Rights are always weighed against the good of others and how those rights may be in contention of other rights others have, even those not necessarily recognized explicitly by the US Constitution.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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