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Thread: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

  1. #151
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    ok, i say your right.....can you as a person exercise a natural right over my natural right?
    Yes, generally this can happen when rights come into conflict. Which right comes out on top depends on the rights in question, the force being applied, and the specific situation. For instance, you can infringe upon one's natural right to life should they exercise their natural rights (say to keep and bear arms) in a way that threatens your own.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes, generally this can happen when rights come into conflict. Which right comes out on top depends on the rights in question, the force being applied, and the specific situation. For instance, you can infringe upon one's natural right to life should they exercise their natural rights (say to keep and bear arms) in a way that threatens your own.

    100 % correct......in that case.....but can you demand from me, a ships captain that i marry you on my ship if aboard, and assert a natural right over my natural right to property, association.

  3. #153
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    100 % correct......in that case.....but can you demand from me, a ships captain that i marry you on my ship if aboard, and assert a natural over my natural right to property, association.
    No, the Marriage Contract is a government issued and recognized contract. You can demand from the government that it marry you, and the government must comply. Individual practitioners, like religion for instance, have no obligation to marry anyone.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And anti-discrimination laws treat everyone equally. You cannot discriminate against someone who is Caucasian or Asian, any more than you can someone who is African American. You cannot discriminate against a man any more than you can a woman. You cannot tell anyone that you will not do business with them due to their religious beliefs or lack there of. (Now, these are subject to the business being open to the public and some certain other considerations, but the basic application of these laws is still equal treatment.)
    I dont think this is entirely so. My general understanding is that historically, discrimination is permitted in regards to contracts, but not services. This is because a contract involves not only a arrangement for a specific function, but usually involves more active and personal involvement by the owner. As a result, freedom to decline contracts is linked to the implied right of freedom of assosciation.

    For example:
    A Muslim restraunt owner must serve say, Jews in his restaraunt. I think the same owner, however, can decline a catering contract to a Jewish oriented event on Zionism. Anecdotally, I have a friend who declines contracts to DJ gay weddings. He would, however, need to sell records to gays if he had a store.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, the Marriage Contract is a government issued and recognized contract. You can demand from the government that it marry you, and the government must comply.
    The Supreme Court has not taken this step yet. Marriage is a societal definition regarding a state of being. As such, the society (the State) currently can place decline to give individuals (or in the case of polygamists, groups of individuals) marital status.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, the Marriage Contract is a government issued and recognized contract. You can demand from the government that it marry you, and the government must comply. Individual practitioners, like religion for instance, have no obligation to marry anyone.
    thank you..you are 100% correct...government must comply.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    The Supreme Court has not taken this step yet. Marriage is a societal definition regarding a state of being. As such, the society (the State) currently can place decline to give individuals (or in the case of polygamists, groups of individuals) marital status.
    The Marriage License (which you need to be married) is government issued and recognized contract. Marriage lost its societal definitions once government usurped it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The Marriage License (which you need to be married) is government issued and recognized contract. Marriage lost its societal definitions once government usurped it.
    That license is derived from the authority of the people in the society acting as a collective whole and is an affirmation that the relationship in question cooresponds to the societal definition of marriage. No society is compelled to recognize all relationships as constituting a "marriage".

    The society may authorize the State to decline giving marital status to homosexuals, heterosexuals (in theory, but hard in practice), polyamorous, and polygamist relationships. Likewise, the Society may recognize, some, or all of these relationships as constituting marriage and authorize the State to give licenses affirming this.

    When applied to the USA, marriage is a states rights issue to be decided legistaltively or by referendum.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    equality under the law as explained by the founders, thru constitution.


    Article. IV.Section. 2......this clause is speaking to state governments in the Constitution

    The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges [civil rights]and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.


    this means that any state which dispenses privileges and immunities to the public, ...MUST GIVE THE same privileges and immunities to citizens of other states who enter that state.

    privileges can be fire, police protection, licenses, among other things.

    immunities are, that no citizen of another state, can held accountable for an offense of the law that would not apply to a state citizen.....MEANING you cannot make 1 person [non -citizen] adhere to a law, and another [citizen] go free for the same action.



    AMENDMENT XIV..............civil rights amendment

    Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.

    Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.

    Section 1.
    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; ......nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property[natural rights], ............ without due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws [civil rights]


    the 14th states clearly..government must comply with all civil rights laws, treating people equal...............IT DOES NOT INCLUDE A CITIZEN OR A BUSINESS MUST COMPLY WITH THE LAW.....constitutional law...does not apply to the PUBLIC
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-13-14 at 03:37 PM.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The Marriage License (which you need to be married) is government issued and recognized contract. Marriage lost its societal definitions once government usurped it.

    yes, this can be found by reading Black's law

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i see your not for liberty, but instead for whatever you wish to impose.

    let see your positions i have seen so far which are floating around.

    force people to pay more taxes.

    force people to be part of a healthcare system

    force people to serve other people.


    Irish and Catholic?
    nope definitely not for total liberty at the expense of others

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