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Thread: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

  1. #131
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    well its time for a recap of activity.

    first... i asked what kind of right marriage is...well i only got 1 answer, saying it was civil.

    then i stated civil rights ...were privileges......and was told i was wrong.........however i proved that was correct.....in this thread .

    i stated civil rights are dispensed by government, and are to be honored by government......not the people, so that you get equality under the law by government.

    then i had people who do not understand what equality is under the law...thinking government making people equal by law....is the same thing...so i gave a perfect example of what the difference is.

    i stated government cannot give you a civil right on other peoples property, if it violates people natural rights, and the founding principles ..the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE....which i stated was law, part of u.s.code.

    again i was told i was wrong about u.s.code, which i provide a link, ......showing myself to me correct.

    then i stated if SSM were a right, then citizens / business would be forced to marry people, ...which i was responded to with a ......what citizen?.....what business?, as if this will not happen....again what citizen? , what business?

    then i produced 1 single state law,..which stated clearly in it........[individuals and business]...when the .........what citizens and business stopped?

    i started you cannot use force on people, because it violate the 13th, because no crime has been committed,...however no one acknowledged that.......because as i have stated in the past discrimination is....administrative law...not criminal law.

    i stated people will be forced, and i was told no person would be forced.........a little later i am told straight out....people will be forced

    so we have arrived at the force stage now, were those on the left admit people are going to be force to do things against their will.

    now i am being told the commerce clause, gives people a right to be served.......well i seem to remember the bill of rights which are amendments to our Constitution came after the constitution itself....which places restrictions on the federal government, and of coarse now the states......that the government shall make no law, infringing on the rights.....which rights in this case are...right to property, right to association......however the left does not or never will believe in property rights.....right to association...well that does not exist either in this case.

    what is in the human makeup, of one person wanting to rule over another????

  2. #132
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I'm just torpedoing your ridiculous argument that anti-discrimination laws violate the 13th amendment. You're the one who brought up criminal penalties, as if that was somehow the difference between acceptable involuntary servitude and unacceptable involuntary servitude.

    You have yet to explain to me why my recurrent training is voluntary servitude when it's required by federal law.
    sorry but you missed my ship.

    constitutional law is supreme law...

    no person can be forced by government to perform labor for another person,...unless convicted of a crime........discrimination is not a crime.

  3. #133
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post

    It seems that the Commerce Clause is what is used to enact anti-discrimination laws on a national level.

    However, since pretty much every state has anti-discrimination laws, it is pointless to argue where the power comes from for Congress to do it. As long as those laws are applied equally to all (as in they apply to a characteristic rather than a specific group of people) then they wouldn't violate the 14th Amendment.
    so no commerce cover everything doesn't it.

    it you will read you will see the commerce clause is also for governments not the people.

    constitutional law....discrimination is illegal for government..not the people...........jim crow laws are government instituted discrimination and were illegal...the 14th states clearly....NO STATE....NOTHING ABOUT PEOPLE OR BUSINESS.......again for you...the constitution of the u.s. does not apply to the people, ...the people cannot./again cannot violate constitutional law, only governments can.

    its clear by your statement and other, you do not understand the concept of equality under law..........but instead your thinking is ..............equality BY law.

  4. #134
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    sorry but you can and should be able to force a business to serve you if their only objection is your Irish and catholic
    i see your not for liberty, but instead for whatever you wish to impose.

    let see your positions i have seen so far which are floating around.

    force people to pay more taxes.

    force people to be part of a healthcare system

    force people to serve other people.


    Irish and Catholic?

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    sorry but you missed my ship.

    constitutional law is supreme law...

    no person can be forced by government to perform labor for another person,...unless convicted of a crime........discrimination is not a crime.
    Discrimination of various sorts is against the law in every state. If the penalty were increased to being a criminal charge, would that make it constitutional, in your opinion?

    you claimed my recurrent training isn't involuntary servitude because pilots work for an employer. This isn't always the case. Many pilots are self-employed, or own their flying business. They are forced to spend time and money on this recurrent training by the federal government. (And I still don't see why you'd draw the line between business owner and employee, both are forced to comply with the regulations)

    So help me out here. Why is my recurrent training voluntary servitude but anti discrimination laws are involuntary?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  6. #136
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i see your not for liberty, but instead for whatever you wish to impose.

    let see your positions i have seen so far which are floating around.

    force people to pay more taxes.

    force people to be part of a healthcare system

    force people to serve other people.


    Irish and Catholic?
    You aren't forced to operate a business that holds out to the public. Therefore it is voluntary on your part to run such a business and make yourself subject to the regulations that apply.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Discrimination of various sorts is against the law in every state. If the penalty were increased to being a criminal charge, would that make it constitutional, in your opinion?

    you claimed my recurrent training isn't involuntary servitude because pilots work for an employer. This isn't always the case. Many pilots are self-employed, or own their flying business. They are forced to spend time and money on this recurrent training by the federal government. (And I still don't see why you'd draw the line between business owner and employee, both are forced to comply with the regulations)

    So help me out here. Why is my recurrent training voluntary servitude but anti discrimination laws are involuntary?

    if it became criminal law ..yes.......you could force someone...however...should be have a person handcuffed and booked into jail, for not serving another person a hamburger?

    pilots.....do you have a right to be a pilot...no...you have a right to seek to be a .......pilot [privilege], and must follow government regulations.... when you become one....... like a doctor

    as a business owner i do not sign any contract [license], and my business license...is for tax purposes only...tax I.D.

    a person has natural rights, and those rights...cannot be taken away because you are in commerce./a business...commerce is also a right.

    how can government make a regulation, which violates your natural right to property, association and commerce......by giving a another person a civil right/privilege on a ......business's property..which violates those natural rights?

    government is the one who creates privileges, and THEY...are they ones who have to honor them...not the public.............THAT IS WHAT GETS INTO EQUALITY UNDER THE LAW.

    when government creates law, to make people all equal, and on the same par with each other via the public itself.......that is equality by law........and not constitutional.

    government has no authority to make me be moral to you,........... they only have the power to see i don't violate your rights.........discrimination is not a rights violation by the public...only government its a rights violation.....as stated by the Constitution.

  8. #138
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You aren't forced to operate a business that holds out to the public. Therefore it is voluntary on your part to run such a business and make yourself subject to the regulations that apply.
    no i am not forced to operate a business, ..but i have a right to commerce...the buying and selling of goods, from those who will deal with me.

    regulations are created by government to see that the health and safety of the public is not at risk......along with tax regulations.........there are no moral regulations...that would be unlawful....because government cannot dictate morals, ..
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-13-14 at 01:13 PM.

  9. #139
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    if it became criminal law ..yes.......you could force someone...however...should be have a person handcuffed and booked into jail, for not serving another person a hamburger?

    pilots.....do you have a right to be a pilot...no...you have a right to seek to be a .......pilot [privilege], and must follow government regulations.... when you become one....... like a doctor

    as a business owner i do not sign any contract [license], and my business license...is for tax purposes only...tax I.D.

    a person has natural rights, and those rights...cannot be taken away because you are in commerce./a business...commerce is also a right.

    how can government make a regulation, which violates your natural right to property, association and commerce......by giving a another person a civil right/privilege on a ......business's property..which violates those natural rights?
    If you want to run a business, you have to follow the regulations that apply to that business, why does the government get to control my access to pilot privileges and not your access to cake baking privileges? Why does a self employed pilot have this control over his life but you don't? Why is regulation only for other people?

    Why is commerce a natural right and flying isn't? Flying is commerce.
    Last edited by Deuce; 05-13-14 at 02:01 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  10. #140
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    so no commerce cover everything doesn't it.

    it you will read you will see the commerce clause is also for governments not the people.

    constitutional law....discrimination is illegal for government..not the people...........jim crow laws are government instituted discrimination and were illegal...the 14th states clearly....NO STATE....NOTHING ABOUT PEOPLE OR BUSINESS.......again for you...the constitution of the u.s. does not apply to the people, ...the people cannot./again cannot violate constitutional law, only governments can.

    its clear by your statement and other, you do not understand the concept of equality under law..........but instead your thinking is ..............equality BY law.
    First of all, I've noticed that you have completely failed to address the point that the states have anti-discrimination laws too. They don't have to justify their laws by the US Constitution, with the exception of ensuring all the rights of the people under the US Constitution are maintained and that they are not coming into conflict with what the federal government is responsible for.

    Rights of the people sometimes come into conflict, and considerations must be made for whose rights are more important, particularly when one person/group is doing something that causes harm or hardship to others. If a person is being prevented from conducting business/obtaining necessary items for their survival just due to someone who controls those resources not feeling like doing business with them because of arbitrary reasons, then this does harm or causes unnecessary hardship that also harms society.

    Second, I understand exactly how equality under the law works. It is you that doesn't seem to understand this though. If you have two people treated differently by a law and the state is unable to show how this unequal treatment does not further a legitimate state interest, then the law violates the 14th Amendment and equal protection clause. What part of that do you not understand?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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