Page 13 of 18 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 171

Thread: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

  1. #121
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    a basic question....were does government get authority to force a citizen[a] to preform an action for another citizens[b].....when citiznen [a]...has not committed a rights violation.

    governments single reason it is instituted is to secure rights........since no rights violation has taken placed, what is being secured here?
    General welfare clause. I realize that many don't agree with that being used, but we know that there is harm caused when businesses open to the public are allowed to discriminate based on certain characteristics of other people when interacting with those people. The only business the government is allowed to operate is the USPS. ALL other businesses are privately owned. But many of those businesses provide essential services/goods for the way we live today. Whether people like it or not, the majority of people are dependent on others for their wellbeing, and that means they must be able to actually get services/goods without being turned away based on criteria that is beyond their control.

    It is balancing the needs and wellbeing of society and those living within with the right of others to choose who they associate with. (Your involuntary servitude argument is a huge overreach because it requires the person to be doing something that they wouldn't otherwise be doing due to some sort of punishment or government force.) They are agreeing to the laws of operating a business open to the public by obtaining a business license to operate a business open to the public. They are free to change how their business runs and only operate a private business that is not open to the public.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #122
    Outer space potato man

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    51,803

    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    involuntary servitude is when you are forced to perform an action against your will, when you have not been convicted of committed a crime /threaten the public's health or safety.

    discrimination is not a crime......it does not fall under criminal law....therefore it is unlawful to apply force to people to make them do things....when they have committed no criminal action.....this is constitutional law.
    Discrimination is against the law. Now you're drawing the line at civil infractions vs. criminal penalties? Man, this keeps getting better and better. So if they write a law that punishes discrimination with prison time, you're suddenly ok with it!?
    Last edited by Deuce; 05-12-14 at 10:36 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  3. #123
    I'm kind of a big deal

    AGENT J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,807

    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You are wrongly trying to apply involuntary servitude to a situation where it isn't.

    In the case described, the person would be still compensated in the same way, doing the same job, if not for some personal problem with something about the type of person the other is and when that characteristic is protected by law.

    Legally, enforcement of anti-discrimination laws is not involuntary servitude. Just as forcing a business to comply with other laws, such as health laws or occupational safety laws, which may require additional work for the person that they may rather not do is not involuntary servitude.

    If you want to prove otherwise, show where a court in the US has determined that it is involuntary servitude to be forced not to discriminate in the job you do anyway.

    Involuntary Servitude legal definition of Involuntary Servitude. Involuntary Servitude synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

    Plus, since the remedy for failing to perform a service for someone in violation of anti-discrimination laws is monetary, then it isn't involuntary servitude. They can opt to pay the person instead (or simply be smart enough to know how to get around the laws, which really aren't that hard).
    correct this is why thats another strawman that always fails
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
    Make America Great Again!
    Pro-Equal Rights / Pro-Gun Rights / Pro-Human Rights / Pro-Choice

  4. #124
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Discrimination is against the law. Now you're drawing the line at civil infractions vs. criminal penalties? Man, this keeps getting better and better. So if they write a law that punishes discrimination with prison time, you're suddenly ok with it!?
    do you not get is.......why is someone being forced to do something?

    their actions, are not violating the rights of other people...........that is the whole reason we have government

    you argument is.......... someone is not going to do something ...YOU want done........therefore punish them........

    its so amazing people want to rule over other people
    ..........



    your idea you follow is to make people equal by law.
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-13-14 at 12:23 AM.

  5. #125
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    General welfare clause. I realize that many don't agree with that being used, but we know that there is harm caused when businesses open to the public are allowed to discriminate based on certain characteristics of other people when interacting with those people. The only business the government is allowed to operate is the USPS. ALL other businesses are privately owned. But many of those businesses provide essential services/goods for the way we live today. Whether people like it or not, the majority of people are dependent on others for their wellbeing, and that means they must be able to actually get services/goods without being turned away based on criteria that is beyond their control.

    It is balancing the needs and wellbeing of society and those living within with the right of others to choose who they associate with. (Your involuntary servitude argument is a huge overreach because it requires the person to be doing something that they wouldn't otherwise be doing due to some sort of punishment or government force.) They are agreeing to the laws of operating a business open to the public by obtaining a business license to operate a business open to the public. They are free to change how their business runs and only operate a private business that is not open to the public.


    welfare and common defense!.


    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

    To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

    To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

    To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

    To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

    To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

    To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

    To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

    To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

    To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

    To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

    To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

    To provide and maintain a Navy;

    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

    To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.





    DUTY OF CONGRESS------------->To pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;


    your ideas of what society needs to do ,does not override constitutional law.
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-13-14 at 12:24 AM.

  6. #126
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,084

    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i posted the Minnesota law for you

    this gives straight or gay couples power to take legal action against a business or person who will not marry them.

    look at what dept of government is being used.....The Minnesota Department of Human Rights

    NOW WHAT IS A HUMAN RIGHT?

    it is a natural right?.........if it is ,you cannot use a natural right AGAINST a natural right......IE....right to marry [COUPLE] AGAINST......the right of association[ BUSINESS OWNER/ CITIZEN]


    if it is a civil right/ privilege......government cannot give you a privilege on BUSINESS OWNER/ CITIZEN'S property, ..which violates his natural right.


    civil rights/ privileges are given by governments...and government HONORS them.....meaning its legal and to have a government officials, marry people of either sex......not force non-government to marry people..[preform a service]
    you need to read the ****ing law

    try hard now

    Therefore, a business that provides wedding services such as cake decorating, wedding planning or catering services may not deny services to a same-sex couple who is planning a wedding based on their sexual orientation. To do so would violate protections for sexual orientation laid out in the Minnesota Human Rights Act. The individuals denied services could file a claim with the Minnesota Department of Human Rights against the entity that discriminated against them.

    optional wedding related services provided by people in those related businesses can be compelled not to discriminate but no one is forced to marry any one against their will

  7. #127
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,084

    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    involuntary servitude is when you are forced to perform an action against your will, when you have not been convicted of committed a crime /threaten the public's health or safety.

    discrimination is not a crime......it does not fall under criminal law....therefore it is unlawful to apply force to people to make them do things....when they have committed no criminal action.....this is constitutional law.
    sorry but you can and should be able to force a business to serve you if their only objection is your Irish and catholic

  8. #128
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,084

    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    do you not get is.......why is someone being forced to do something?

    their actions, are not violating the rights of other people...........that is the whole reason we have government

    you argument is.......... someone is not going to do something ...YOU want done........therefore punish them........

    its so amazing people want to rule over other people
    ..........



    your idea you follow is to make people equal by law.
    o gods no their forcing money and decency on a**holes run for the hills every one

  9. #129
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    welfare and common defense!.

    ...

    DUTY OF CONGRESS------------->To pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;


    your ideas of what society needs to do ,does not override constitutional law.
    Most of this post was completely pointless. It provided absolutely nothing to the issue at hand.

    I get it, you don't agree that this is the point. Well, since the SCOTUS has yet to strike down anti-discrimination laws entirely, particularly state level anti-discrimination laws, I'd say that they aren't going anywhere. In fact, I'd say that the power of the states to tell their people they cannot discriminate is pretty much solid. So why does it even matter whether Congress can make such laws?

    Selected Supreme Court Decisions

    It seems that the Commerce Clause is what is used to enact anti-discrimination laws on a national level.

    However, since pretty much every state has anti-discrimination laws, it is pointless to argue where the power comes from for Congress to do it. As long as those laws are applied equally to all (as in they apply to a characteristic rather than a specific group of people) then they wouldn't violate the 14th Amendment.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #130
    Outer space potato man

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    51,803

    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    do you not get is.......why is someone being forced to do something?

    their actions, are not violating the rights of other people...........that is the whole reason we have government

    you argument is.......... someone is not going to do something ...YOU want done........therefore punish them........

    its so amazing people want to rule over other people
    ..........



    your idea you follow is to make people equal by law.
    I'm just torpedoing your ridiculous argument that anti-discrimination laws violate the 13th amendment. You're the one who brought up criminal penalties, as if that was somehow the difference between acceptable involuntary servitude and unacceptable involuntary servitude.

    You have yet to explain to me why my recurrent training is voluntary servitude when it's required by federal law.
    Last edited by Deuce; 05-13-14 at 08:20 AM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

Page 13 of 18 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •