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Thread: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

  1. #111
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    you seem to be missing a point yourself gay marriage doesn't crate a new situation the question is can any 2 people force some one to perform a marge ceremony for them

    look at the law.....


    Frequently Asked Questions about Minnesota's New Same-Sex Marriage Law

    On May 14, 2013 Governor Mark Dayton signed into law a bill legalizing same-sex marriages in Minnesota. The Minnesota Department of Human Rights answers your questions regarding the rights of couples wishing to get married when the new law goes into effect on August 1, 2013.


    Are religious organizations required to marry individuals of the same-sex?

    No. The legislature sought to ensure this new legislation would not unconstitutionally infringe upon the rights of religious entities. Therefore, religious entities can, consistent with their theological doctrine, policy and teachings, perform same-sex marriages. However, the new law does not compel legal religious entities to perform same-sex marriages.


    Are other organizations exempt from the law?

    No. The law does not exempt individuals, businesses, nonprofits, or the secular business activities of religious entities from non-discrimination laws based on religious beliefs regarding same-sex marriage. Therefore, a business that provides wedding services such as cake decorating, wedding planning or catering services may not deny services to a same-sex couple who is planning a wedding based on their sexual orientation. To do so would violate protections for sexual orientation laid out in the Minnesota Human Rights Act. The individuals denied services could file a claim with the Minnesota Department of Human Rights against the entity that discriminated against them.

    this law says by force two people wanting to get married can take action against the bold listed institutions above.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i have stated the position, their is no authority anywhere to force anyone, to do things against their will if they have committed no crime or endangered heath or safety, ..people have liberty to make decisions in their life's based on what they want to do.

    commerce is based on a free exchange, not a coerced exchange.......feelings , emotions do not enter not the picture.
    then gay marriage is no problem

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    look at the law.....


    Frequently Asked Questions about Minnesota's New Same-Sex Marriage Law

    On May 14, 2013 Governor Mark Dayton signed into law a bill legalizing same-sex marriages in Minnesota. The Minnesota Department of Human Rights answers your questions regarding the rights of couples wishing to get married when the new law goes into effect on August 1, 2013.


    Are religious organizations required to marry individuals of the same-sex?

    No. The legislature sought to ensure this new legislation would not unconstitutionally infringe upon the rights of religious entities. Therefore, religious entities can, consistent with their theological doctrine, policy and teachings, perform same-sex marriages. However, the new law does not compel legal religious entities to perform same-sex marriages.


    Are other organizations exempt from the law?

    No. The law does not exempt individuals, businesses, nonprofits, or the secular business activities of religious entities from non-discrimination laws based on religious beliefs regarding same-sex marriage. Therefore, a business that provides wedding services such as cake decorating, wedding planning or catering services may not deny services to a same-sex couple who is planning a wedding based on their sexual orientation. To do so would violate protections for sexual orientation laid out in the Minnesota Human Rights Act. The individuals denied services could file a claim with the Minnesota Department of Human Rights against the entity that discriminated against them.

    this law says by force two people wanting to get married can take action against the bold listed institutions above.
    just like hetero sexual couples can so no change and that doesn't include people actually performing a ceremony no one has to actually marry a couple gay or not

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    just like hetero sexual couples can so no change and that doesn't include people actually performing a ceremony no one has to actually marry a couple gay or not
    my position is about force.....if two people man and a woman wanted to marry and someone did not want to marry them, and tired to use law to force on them too...its still wrong....


    WHY?....do people think they are in the RIGHT,.....when trying to force other people to do things against their will?

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    my position is about force.....if two people man and a woman wanted to marry and someone did not want to marry them, and tired to use law to force on them too...its still wrong....


    WHY?....do people think they are in the RIGHT,.....when trying to force other people to do things against their will?
    its still not legal to force any 1 to marry you if your gay or not that's the answer to your original question on this thread

    not for a business private person or a religion any way

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    its still not legal to force any 1 to marry you if your gay or not that's the answer to your original question on this thread

    not for a business private person or a religion any way
    i posted the Minnesota law for you

    this gives straight or gay couples power to take legal action against a business or person who will not marry them.

    look at what dept of government is being used.....The Minnesota Department of Human Rights

    NOW WHAT IS A HUMAN RIGHT?

    it is a natural right?.........if it is ,you cannot use a natural right AGAINST a natural right......IE....right to marry [COUPLE] AGAINST......the right of association[ BUSINESS OWNER/ CITIZEN]


    if it is a civil right/ privilege......government cannot give you a privilege on BUSINESS OWNER/ CITIZEN'S property, ..which violates his natural right.


    civil rights/ privileges are given by governments...and government HONORS them.....meaning its legal and to have a government officials, marry people of either sex......not force non-government to marry people..[preform a service]
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-12-14 at 07:38 PM.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    thats not even a good response....a pilot works for a company and must perform the duties and training required by the company he works for, if not he can be fired.
    That recurrent training is required by the FAA, not the employer, plenty of pilots are self-employed, and plenty of aviation company owners fly planes themselves. All must carry this expense. I ask again: is this not involuntary servitude? Requiring someone to spend their time and money on this training?

    A business owner works for himself, in his own interest, as long as he is not committing a crime, or endangering the public thru health and safety government has no authority to apply force to him.
    Now you're quibbling over when involuntary servitude is acceptable and when it isn't.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    That recurrent training is required by the FAA, not the employer, plenty of pilots are self-employed, and plenty of aviation company owners fly planes themselves. All must carry this expense. I ask again: is this not involuntary servitude? Requiring someone to spend their time and money on this training?


    Now you're quibbling over when involuntary servitude is acceptable and when it isn't.

    involuntary servitude is when you are forced to perform an action against your will, when you have not been convicted of committed a crime /threaten the public's health or safety.

    discrimination is not a crime......it does not fall under criminal law....therefore it is unlawful to apply force to people to make them do things....when they have committed no criminal action.....this is constitutional law.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    involuntary servitude is when you are forced to perform an action against your will, when you have not been convicted of committed a crime /threaten the public's health or safety.

    discrimination is not a crime......it does not fall under criminal law....therefore it is unlawful to apply force to people to make them do things....when they have committed no criminal action.....this is constitutional law.
    You are wrongly trying to apply involuntary servitude to a situation where it isn't.

    In the case described, the person would be still compensated in the same way, doing the same job, if not for some personal problem with something about the type of person the other is and when that characteristic is protected by law.

    Legally, enforcement of anti-discrimination laws is not involuntary servitude. Just as forcing a business to comply with other laws, such as health laws or occupational safety laws, which may require additional work for the person that they may rather not do is not involuntary servitude.

    If you want to prove otherwise, show where a court in the US has determined that it is involuntary servitude to be forced not to discriminate in the job you do anyway.

    Involuntary Servitude legal definition of Involuntary Servitude. Involuntary Servitude synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

    Plus, since the remedy for failing to perform a service for someone in violation of anti-discrimination laws is monetary, then it isn't involuntary servitude. They can opt to pay the person instead (or simply be smart enough to know how to get around the laws, which really aren't that hard).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Strikes Down State's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You are wrongly trying to apply involuntary servitude to a situation where it isn't.

    In the case described, the person would be still compensated in the same way, doing the same job, if not for some personal problem with something about the type of person the other is and when that characteristic is protected by law.

    Legally, enforcement of anti-discrimination laws is not involuntary servitude. Just as forcing a business to comply with other laws, such as health laws or occupational safety laws, which may require additional work for the person that they may rather not do is not involuntary servitude.

    If you want to prove otherwise, show where a court in the US has determined that it is involuntary servitude to be forced not to discriminate in the job you do anyway.

    Involuntary Servitude legal definition of Involuntary Servitude. Involuntary Servitude synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

    Plus, since the remedy for failing to perform a service for someone in violation of anti-discrimination laws is monetary, then it isn't involuntary servitude. They can opt to pay the person instead (or simply be smart enough to know how to get around the laws, which really aren't that hard).
    a basic question....were does government get authority to force a citizen[a] to preform an action for another citizens[b].....when citiznen [a]...has not committed a rights violation.

    governments single reason it is instituted is to secure rights........since no rights violation has taken placed, what is being secured here?


    Involuntary servitude is a United States legal and constitutional term for a person laboring against that person's will to benefit another, under some form of coercion other than the worker's financial needs. While laboring to benefit another occurs also in the condition of slavery, involuntary servitude does not necessarily connote the complete lack of freedom experienced in chattel slavery; involuntary servitude may also refer to other forms of unfree labor. Involuntary servitude is not dependent upon compensation or its amount.

    example..... if i enter you land, and destroy some of your property, say a building...a judge could order me to go out to you property and rebuild that structure......or he could have be work for you until, the debt to you for the crime is paid.

    is a case of discrimination, i am not violating any rights of anyone.....i am simply do not want to associate with you, and i have that natural right to do so....government has no authority to force me, because i have not committed a crime [ rights violation]
    Last edited by Master PO; 05-12-14 at 10:19 PM.

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