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Thread: More Businesses Shutting Down than Starting Up

  1. #21
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: More Businesses Shutting Down than Starting Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    ...

    #5: The time and effort it takes to start a new business is considerably more strict than in years past. In regulations alone the bureau 'branch' of government has made it significantly more complicated to start a business and advance a business.....
    Other than Obamacare (which does not apply to businesses with less than 50 full time employees), can you tell me specifically which regulations make it significantly more complicated to start a business these days?

    I've been asking that question for years, no one has ever responded with any answer other than Obamacare.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  2. #22
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    Re: More Businesses Shutting Down than Starting Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Really?

    Are you sure it isn't a combination of global free trade signed into law by president Clinton, and Obamacare?
    Competition from countries that don't have worker and environmental protections that are equal to ours is certainly part of it.

    So is this irrational fear of Obamacare promoted by many conservative talking heads. A few months ago, our economy was supposed to crash and burn due to Obamacare. The expectation of that undoubtably contributed towards last Decembers horrible job creation number of just 88,000 jobs. As employers realize that they were bamboozled by those conservative talking heads, they started to hire more workers, satisfying pent up demand for workers, leading to last months great job creation figure of close to 300,000 jobs.

    At this point, I expect that job creation numbers will exceed last years up until december, at which time fear of an economic crash due to the employer mandate finally kicking in will subdue Decembers numbers. then sometime in the first half of 2015, we should see job creations ratcheting up significantly again.

    Dire economic predictions by those on the far right have done our economy much more harm that Obamacare actually has. Thank God that conservative predictions are rarely correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  3. #23
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    Re: More Businesses Shutting Down than Starting Up

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Competition from countries that don't have worker and environmental protections that are equal to ours is certainly part of it.
    Cool.

    We agree on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    So is this irrational fear of Obamacare promoted by many conservative talking heads. A few months ago, our economy was supposed to crash and burn due to Obamacare. The expectation of that undoubtably contributed towards last Decembers horrible job creation number of just 88,000 jobs.
    Well, I don't know who you are listening too, but my take on what is said is that we would enter a point that becomes irreversible, and it is the starting point of dooming our nation as we know it. Not the end result yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    As employers realize that they were bamboozled by those conservative talking heads, they started to hire more workers, satisfying pent up demand for workers, leading to last months great job creation figure of close to 300,000 jobs.
    Yet all these reports have averaging job growth not keeping up with population growth. Raw numbers are meaningless until put into perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    At this point, I expect that job creation numbers will exceed last years up until december, at which time fear of an economic crash due to the employer mandate finally kicking in will subdue Decembers numbers. then sometime in the first half of 2015, we should see job creations ratcheting up significantly again.
    Are you saying they may shift to where the percentage of jobs available grow by more than the population growth? Isn't it still too little too late? We need more than double the current job growth to get back to reasonable unemployment numbers again.

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Dire economic predictions by those on the far right have done our economy much more harm that Obamacare actually has. Thank God that conservative predictions are rarely correct.
    OK, you agree that what talking heads say influence the actions of employers. As such, I will remind you that starting in 2006, when democrats took over congress, they promised to punish the evil rich and corporations. What effect does that have?

  4. #24
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    Re: More Businesses Shutting Down than Starting Up

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Other than Obamacare (which does not apply to businesses with less than 50 full time employees), can you tell me specifically which regulations make it significantly more complicated to start a business these days?

    I've been asking that question for years, no one has ever responded with any answer other than Obamacare.
    When I was researching for a now-nixed business concept the main issues were costs for bringing buildings up to code: Pay for inspection, hiring a crew, purchasing the materials needed (etc). All this is cost related - and my store concept was retail, so things like air filtration systems and other high cost elements were at a minimum.

    But imagine being a restaurant: higher restrictions in regard to materials used - things like 'the distance between the nearest food-prep area and dinning area' are regulated, too - as are the filtration standards for equipment.

    In some ways some regulation changes are for customers safety and they really do make sense.

    However, that doesn't mean they aren't costly - and business concepts rely on a balance of cost and revenue.

    One small change here, one new addition to the registry there, one advancement in filtration here . . . and those costs add up.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  5. #25
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: More Businesses Shutting Down than Starting Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Cool.

    We agree on that.


    Well, I don't know who you are listening too, but my take on what is said is that we would enter a point that becomes irreversible, and it is the starting point of dooming our nation as we know it. Not the end result yet.


    Yet all these reports have averaging job growth not keeping up with population growth. Raw numbers are meaningless until put into perspective.


    Are you saying they may shift to where the percentage of jobs available grow by more than the population growth? Isn't it still too little too late? We need more than double the current job growth to get back to reasonable unemployment numbers again.


    OK, you agree that what talking heads say influence the actions of employers. As such, I will remind you that starting in 2006, when democrats took over congress, they promised to punish the evil rich and corporations. What effect does that have?
    As long as our per work hour productivity rate keeps increasing, we can produce more and more with fewer workers. That's a good thing. As long as our babyboom generation keeps retiring, the number of people needing to work will keep falling. So we don't necessarily need jobs to keep up with population. All we need is for there to be enough jobs for everyone who wants to work to be able to work, and for those jobs to pay a decent wage.

    There was nothing really special about 2006, some nutjobs have always promoted punishing the evil rich. Others just want a more progressive income tax system as a tool to reduce income disparity. This discussion has been going on for almost a hundred years (income tax started around 1917?), and I imagine it's going to continue for another hundred years. Human nature never really changes, we are what we are.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  6. #26
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: More Businesses Shutting Down than Starting Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    When I was researching for a now-nixed business concept the main issues were costs for bringing buildings up to code: Pay for inspection, hiring a crew, purchasing the materials needed (etc). All this is cost related - and my store concept was retail, so things like air filtration systems and other high cost elements were at a minimum.

    But imagine being a restaurant: higher restrictions in regard to materials used - things like 'the distance between the nearest food-prep area and dinning area' are regulated, too - as are the filtration standards for equipment.

    In some ways some regulation changes are for customers safety and they really do make sense.

    However, that doesn't mean they aren't costly - and business concepts rely on a balance of cost and revenue.

    One small change here, one new addition to the registry there, one advancement in filtration here . . . and those costs add up.
    They do add up, but do we have a shortage of places to eat? There are at least 30 restaurants with a one mile radius of my business, and probably over a hundred within a ten mile radius of my home. Obviously these expenses aren't preventing too many restaurants from starting up.

    Don't get me wrong, I totally understand that regulations to affect business decisions, but they are supposed to do that. When I built my commercial building, I ended up making it one foot shorter than I had originally intended, so that I would avoid some regulations which were based upon sq footage. If I had been a little richer, or if my business would have been a little more successful, I would have likely not even worried about those things though. That's the great thing about the American small business owner, we are flexible and solve problems creatively.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  7. #27
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    Re: More Businesses Shutting Down than Starting Up

    Obama's socialist policies?

    Do you mean socialism for Wall Street?

    He is a socialist in the same way Hitler or Mussolini were.

  8. #28
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: More Businesses Shutting Down than Starting Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Obama's socialist policies?

    Do you mean socialism for Wall Street?

    He is a socialist in the same way Hitler or Mussolini were.
    As was Bush. There is little difference between the parties these days, aside from rhetoric that they preach but don't practice.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  9. #29
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    Re: More Businesses Shutting Down than Starting Up

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    As was Bush. There is little difference between the parties these days, aside from rhetoric that they preach but don't practice.
    Obama governs like Bush on steroids.

  10. #30
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: More Businesses Shutting Down than Starting Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Obama governs like Bush on steroids.
    Pretty much.

    As much as we love to complain about Obama, if we would have elected most anyone else from either the Dem party or the Repub party, 99.9% of the policy would have been the same.

    We actually would have likely had much more growth of government spending if we had elected a republican, we always do. Thats because republicans are only concerned about the growth of government and deficits when democrats are in charge, so republicans would have been passing pork spending bills left and right, and dems would have been happy to join in on the action. With a stalemate in congress and a dem as potus, spending is almost always restrained.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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