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Polls-Americans are sick of the war on terror

Unitedwestand13 said:
i thought we were fighting a war on terror? that means we go after terrorists no matter where they are
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Hah - you'd think. Until you bothered to read what we actually authorized, which are pretty much AQ and Affiliates. So, al-Shabab? Well, they declared for AQ a while back. Taliban? Yup, they are definitely an affiliate, as technically AQ has declared fealty to them rather than the other way 'round. Haqqani Network? Yup, same story. AQIM? Yup, they were good enough to put it in the name and everything. But Boko Haram? Nope. ISIL? Nope, they split off. Lebanese Hezbollah? Nope, not even Sunni. Hamas? Nope, hunting them would feel too pro-Israeli-ish. New People's Army? Nope, I mean, they're communists and fighting communists is like, so mid twentieth century.....

etc. so on and so forth. Ansar Al Sharia? ...... maybe? We still haven't bothered to go after the guy who hit Benghazi, after all. Just because someone is willing to kill us doesn't mean that our fearless leader is willing or can be bothered to go kill them.
 
War Hoax

Fewer Americans are willing to believe, willing to blindly follow, willing to die for what more and more now clearly see as wars for Wall Street.

Perhaps the most carefully hidden impact on America’s ability to wage war is the epidemic of military/veteran suicides, numbers far more than anyone imagined.* Current suicide numbers actually exceed the total combat deaths from both the Vietnam and Korean wars.

Current “Epic Failure”

There is a reason that American troop deployments into Poland and Latvia are so pitiful, despite the fact that nearly all US troops are out of the Middle East.* America’s “war games” deployment meant to intimidate Putin’s Russia accentuates a frightening fact few are aware of.* America’s trained military “inventory” is nearly totally depleted.

They aren’t just “quit” or retired, in truth, America has had well over 100,000 combat related deaths tied to* Desert Storm and the Global War on Terror that it has failed to report.* Some, well over 10,000, are from mysterious “Gulf War Syndrome,” reputed to be a “cocktail” of radiation and chemical exposure along with experimental vaccines.
However, the majority are suicides.* In 2009, a press release from the Department of Veterans Affairs cited 30,000 “veteran suicides” among those who served post 9/11.* Within a day, that figure was never to be seen again and the machinery of disinformation went into high gear.* For the past five years there have only been reports of so many “deaths per minute” or fractional counts from active duty personnel.
 
24107 said:
To address the part of your post about foreigners, that is the doing of the government. Have you heard about the dream act of the 1960's which encouraged immigration? Or is that Obamas fault too?
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Americans were the foreigners in Iraq and Afghanistan. That was the point, not the Dream Act.
 
24107 said:
War Hoax

Fewer Americans are willing to believe, willing to blindly follow, willing to die for what more and more now clearly see as wars for Wall Street.

Perhaps the most carefully hidden impact on America’s ability to wage war is the epidemic of military/veteran suicides, numbers far more than anyone imagined.* Current suicide numbers actually exceed the total combat deaths from both the Vietnam and Korean wars.

Current “Epic Failure”

There is a reason that American troop deployments into Poland and Latvia are so pitiful, despite the fact that nearly all US troops are out of the Middle East.* America’s “war games” deployment meant to intimidate Putin’s Russia accentuates a frightening fact few are aware of.* America’s trained military “inventory” is nearly totally depleted.

They aren’t just “quit” or retired, in truth, America has had well over 100,000 combat related deaths tied to* Desert Storm and the Global War on Terror that it has failed to report.* Some, well over 10,000, are from mysterious “Gulf War Syndrome,” reputed to be a “cocktail” of radiation and chemical exposure along with experimental vaccines.
However, the majority are suicides.* In 2009, a press release from the Department of Veterans Affairs cited 30,000 “veteran suicides” among those who served post 9/11.* Within a day, that figure was never to be seen again and the machinery of disinformation went into high gear.* For the past five years there have only been reports of so many “deaths per minute” or fractional counts from active duty personnel.
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Of course many Americans no longer want to fight and die for their country because, in the end, it will end up being a political decision not a military decision, and another war will be lost. Also, what does it all stand for now? How would any soldier feel after they were abandoned in Benghazi or seeing the All Qaeda flag flying over Fallujah.
 
Drugs and terror (terrorism) are not things one can wage war upon. Not successfully anyway. These are conflicts that cannot be won.

The war on drugs cannot possibly be won because people like drugs. The American people, and people the world over, want to do drugs. Drugs are cheaper and easier to get than they were before we started throwing people in jail for having them. Prohibition didn't work with alcohol and doesn't work with anything else. And then there is the horrific racial component, as the war on drugs is used to lock up and strip rights from young black men, and not to lock up or strip rights away from whites. It is little more than a war on the poor.

The war on terror cannot possibly be won because it is s tactic. Terrorism is the tactic of the desperate powerless against the powerful. It has been going on for thousands of years. They fought terrorists in Rome, in the Old Kingdom in Egypt, in ancient China, in African civilizations that we have no writings from, in the Aztec empire before they ever encountered Europeans... You cannot defeat a tactic. So long as people without power are oppressed by those with power, they will seek to strike back. You cannot fight a war against desperate and powerless people. You will only make them more desperate.

The American people are sick of the wars on drugs and terror because these are not things one can wage war against. The problems that drove us to fight them cannot be solved with violence.
 
cpwill said:
Oh, we are tired of the War on Terror? That's nice. Apparently wars aren't won or lost anymore, one side just gets bored and wanders off.

I'm so glad we have these options. Apparently we can just agree to call it all a draw, and all of us go home. Hooray.
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It seems that getting bored and wandering off is a likely outcome when wars are brought under fraud, wars of choice.
 
I don't think intervening in Muslim on Muslim wars fights terrorism. I think that telling each side that the other side said that they are apostates and giving them more bullets fights terrorism.

It's sad but true, if we want to be safe from evil people, lots and lots of them have to die. That's how it works.
 
Oftencold said:
I don't think intervening in Muslim on Muslim wars fights terrorism. I think that telling each side that the other side said that they are apostates and giving them more bullets fights terrorism.

It's sad but true, if we want to be safe from evil people, lots and lots of them have to die. That's how it works.
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Considering the dark side of the human condition, how do we define just exactly who the 'evil people' are?
 
Henry David said:
Considering the dark side of the human condition, how do we define just exactly who the 'evil people' are?
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Actually as a Christian, I'm not allowed to make that judgment. I ought to have said, "those who would do us evil." That's a much lower bar for judgment.

I stand corrected.
 
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Oftencold said:
Actually as A Christian, I'm not allowed to make that judgment. "I ought to have said, those who would do us evil." That's a much lower bar for judgment.

I stand corrected.
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I agree. Therefore I offer a higher bar for judgment--those who have actually done us evil. :peace
 
cpwill said:
Wheee. "The war on terror is dying down". Except it's not. We decided to half-ass it, and so now it's a bigger problem.
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Have you ever stopped to think that maybe WE were the terrorists? After all, we were infiltrating countries, overthrowing governments, and bombing the heck out of people long before 9/11. And we've continued to do it long after 9/11 and long after bin Laden was killed. Heck, in just the last 10 years, we've overthrown or helped take down the governments in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya, as well as working to do the same in several other countries. We've bombed/conducted armed assaults against "terrorists" in countries without their permisssion, have killed numerous innocents in these bombings and we STILL won't leave.

Maybe, as the United States pulls out of these different Middle Eastern countries, we really are shrinking the war on terror...
 
Henry David said:
I agree. Therefore I offer a higher bar for judgment--those who have actually done us evil. :peace
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I support permeative war. Once an aggressor country's government or other large organization announces its intent and has the means and begins to mobilize for war, I feel that their enemy is justified in acting in a lethal manner.

It sounds fine for leaders to announce that they will wait for the other side to strike. but what they are saying is that their posturing is worth more than the lives of their people who will die.

By the way, "peace" is a very, very overrated word. we have a wonderful peace with the Canadians. But the grave is also peaceful. Hopeless defeat, subjugation and slavery are peaceful. Oblivion is peaceful. Mindlessness is peaceful. Carthage has been at peace for about two thousand years, since the Romans obliterated it and its people. We need better words.
 
With our global economy and interests, its probably getting worse, not better. Ideally, why not have leaders and elders hash it out among themselves with fistfights, saber rattling, or in some cases...bike races

obama%20bike%203.jpg

(sorry, weird sense of humor)

I am guessing that, if our esteemed leaders would have to dirty their very own hands, they would think twice about sending troops to be maimed or killed.
 
cpwill said:
Oh, we are tired of the War on Terror? That's nice. Apparently wars aren't won or lost anymore, one side just gets bored and wanders off.

I'm so glad we have these options. Apparently we can just agree to call it all a draw, and all of us go home. Hooray.
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That's what happens when things are ill conceived, horribly planned, bogged down and has no end game in sight. Most people aren't tickled pink at the thought of Infinity War.
 
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Henry David said:
It seems that getting bored and wandering off is a likely outcome when wars are brought under fraud, wars of choice.
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:doh Sure. I'm glad they're going to be fine with that option. Once upon a time a war required one to start and two to end, but apparently now the rules of humanity have changed simply because we would find that to be convenient. How exquisitely timed. :roll:
 
Slyfox696 said:
Have you ever stopped to think that maybe WE were the terrorists?
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I don't recall targeting women, children, and civilians in order to produce as many casualties as possible, hoping to horrify and cow entire populaces because I rejected modernity and chose instead to replace it with a feudal-era blood-fantasy of my own, so, no.

But thank you for demonstrating the intellectual vacuity of your position right from the get-go. I'll let you get back to the quad.
 
Ikari said:
That's what happens when things are ill conceived, horribly planned, bogged down and has no end game in sight. Most people aren't tickled pink at the thought of Infinity War.
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Hooray. They aren't tickled pink. We'll explain that to the guys who intend to wage multi-generational war and I'm sure that their response will be "Oh. I'm sorry. We didn't know. Well, if you aren't tickled pink....". :roll:



Man, the tickled pink defense is something we need to really hop on! Imagine the possibilities. "I"m sorry Mr Putin, but didn't you know that Ukraine isn't tickled pink about being invaded and chopped up?" "My Gootness, I am so very how-do-you-say, sory. I could haf swvorn they were at least teekled how-you-say, Fusha. I vill get my troops and be going now." "Hey Assad, why are you bombing half your country? Didn't you know they weren't tickled pink about that? Oh hey, Boko Haram, I' know you've captured, like, hundreds of school girls and intend to use them as slave-brides, but have you asked them if they are tickled pink about that process yet?


:doh
 
Former US lawmaker Ron Paul says China will soon overtake the United States as the world’s largest economy as officials in Washington are squandering the taxpayer money on “a hyper-interventionist foreign policy.”

“One advantage China has over the US is that the Chinese government does not waste money on a hyper-interventionist foreign policy. The United States government spent approximately $752 billion on the military in fiscal year 2013. In contrast, China spent approximately $188 billion,” the former presidential candidate wrote in a piece published Sunday on the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity.

While most economists had previously predicted that China would become the leading global economic power*by 2019, data compiled by the world’s leading statistical agencies have recently shown that China would overtake the United States as early as this year.

“News that China is soon to surpass the United States as the largest economy in the world is a stark reminder of how the American people are harmed by the welfare-warfare state, crony capitalism, and fiat currency,” Paul wrote.

Stressing that only “those who run or work for the military-industrial complex” benefit from America’s overblown military spending and bellicose foreign policy, Paul added, “The only way to avoid continuing collapse is to finally reject an interventionist foreign policy, stop bailing out and subsidizing politically powerful industries, and restore a free market in money.”

Paul’s remarks come as a recent Wall Street Journal/NBC News survey showed that Americans are becoming tired of their government’s interventionist policies around the world.
 
cpwill said:
I don't deny that. I just think that we are demonstrating ourselves to actually be the Weak Horse to an entire region, and that's gonna go badly for us.
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You roll with the punches, CP. I think the neoconservative (the Neo-Reaganite kind, to be more specific-you know who I mean) reaction was far too willing to give the ultimate solution to a populace that wanted it, but had no concept for what it would take.

Fukuyama was right: democratic populaces need limited aims and limited timetables. I don't think the idea promoted by the Defense Dept. was adequate for the realities of our republic.

As much as we can be disappointed in the populace for turning on the conflict they wanted so much (Afghanistan), you have to deal with it. They certainly couldn't handle that, much less the concept of outside democratic revolution.

Personally, I often wonder if the direct land threat posed by Islamic terrorism is on the same level of importance as what Russia is attempting to do. In one way, our interventions in the middle east had eased the ability of the Russians to get away with Georgia and perhaps the Ukraine. But on the other hand, the Islamic threat is more tangible-with slain civilians and a domestic soil attack.

We are more or less bound to what the citizens can deal with, whether right or wrong.
 
24107 said:
Former US lawmaker Ron Paul says China will soon overtake the United States as the world’s largest economy as officials in Washington are squandering the taxpayer money on “a hyper-interventionist foreign policy.”
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The Chinese are having much more difficulty getting to a comfortable economy than many are willing to admit. They are also (in the mid-term, at least) intrinsically tied toward our well-being.

China in many ways is used as a binary means of explaining US foreign policy. In some levels they are the boogey-men (economic worries, ideological worries), and then in other ways a potential heathen waiting to be converted (19th century American foreign policy & Christian protestantism conversion onward).
 
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cpwill said:
I don't recall targeting women, children, and civilians in order to produce as many casualties as possible
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You've obviously forgotten World War 2 then.

hoping to horrify and cow entire populaces
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Then you've obviously forgotten Afghanistan and Iraq.

because I rejected modernity
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How about because you disagree with their values? Because that's really why things are happening, not because of a rejection of "modernity".

and chose instead to replace it with a feudal-era blood-fantasy of my own, so, no.
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Ahh, it's always fun to pretend you are in the right and everyone else is wrong, isn't it?

But you probably are right...it's not like a predominately Christian nation ever invaded the Middle East during the feudal-era with the intent to convert them to their way of life. It never happened...

But thank you for demonstrating the intellectual vacuity of your position right from the get-go.
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Says the person whose position is so blinded by years of propaganda the very idea his country could possibly be in the wrong doesn't even occur to him.

Perhaps you ought to take a few moments to consider how you'd feel if you lived in Iraq right now and the only country to ever launch atomic weapons invaded you by way of lies and false premises, toppled your government, shot and killed your countrymen, killed innocent women and children, and then proceeded to tell you they weren't going to leave until you do things their way.

Then perhaps you can figure out why it's not such a leap for people to consider the United States one of the worst offenders in the world.
 
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cpwill said:
Hooray. They aren't tickled pink. We'll explain that to the guys who intend to wage multi-generational war and I'm sure that their response will be "Oh. I'm sorry. We didn't know. Well, if you aren't tickled pink....". :roll:



Man, the tickled pink defense is something we need to really hop on! Imagine the possibilities. "I"m sorry Mr Putin, but didn't you know that Ukraine isn't tickled pink about being invaded and chopped up?" "My Gootness, I am so very how-do-you-say, sory. I could haf swvorn they were at least teekled how-you-say, Fusha. I vill get my troops and be going now." "Hey Assad, why are you bombing half your country? Didn't you know they weren't tickled pink about that? Oh hey, Boko Haram, I' know you've captured, like, hundreds of school girls and intend to use them as slave-brides, but have you asked them if they are tickled pink about that process yet?


:doh
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So we wage infinity war and lose our freedom in the process. That's great. Just because some scared chicken littles cannot understand probabilities and don't want to live with the consequence of freedom. Just bomb more people more communities more families, chalk it up to acceptable casualties, and go about our day pretending that we aren't playing into the very system we claim to be against.

Short sighted revenge will never produce a lasting peace, and infinity war is just a tool of fascist government. Fools running to their own doom.
 
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