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Thread: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

  1. #181
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    All I know is mcdonalds teenager who drools on my burger better ****ing give me better service otherwise he doesn't deserve a penny more than what he is getting already.

    Better pay = better service

    I demand EVERYONE being affected positively by this change up their game if they aren't doing so already, because there is a reason why someone like a relationships manager or lawyer or doctor get more money than someone who works at fast food.
    You get what you pay for.

    Tell me, guy - if you were getting paid peanuts at your job, would you try to be good at your job? Of course you would...in the beginning, maybe even for a few months. But if you knew down deep in your heart that no matter how hard you worked at this job, there was NO WAY you'd get paid enough to really live on at that job, that would eventually eat away at your quality of service - and your change in attitude would affect those around you, too. It's a very human thing - we're all subject to it.

    If you pay crappy wages, you're going to get crappy service. That's reality, guy.

    You get what you pay for.
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  2. #182
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    YOu're doing exactly what the people who did the study and creating a scenario to sudy that gives the results you/they want. This study CHOSE two places where the differences between them was so dramatic and fulyy supported the hypothesis that they started with. It's was a goal-based study and not one that was that intended to find truth. If the idea that you and they support is so easily proven, then why use such an easily attacked methodology?? Why not take tow comparable groups of companies study them in aggregate and see how the changes effected not only them, but the communities they occupy as well?? Given a choice of doing a study the right way and doing it the wrong way, they chose the wrong way. That choice alone should send up red flags for everyone who wants to know the truth instead of just being "proven" right. Seek truth in all things, even when it makes you wrong.
    Guy, you're full of it. Both businesses have the same basic model. And the ONLY reason you think the methodology is wrong is because the study is telling you something you don't want to hear.

    Let me guess - you think all those scientists are wrong about anthropogenic global warming too, right?
    And you think that those scientists are wrong about fracking causing earthquakes and contaminating groundwater too, right?

    Yeah, I suppose it's all just part of that grand conspiracy by higher institutions of learning to turn the world into a socialist paradise....
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  3. #183
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    Are you sure you have actually been away from Washington State. Not only is housing much cheaper in places with lower wages but so is a ton of other stuff. Why do you think BAS that the military pays is almost half in Ft Bragg NC as it is here at Ft Lewis. It is because everything is significantly cheaper not just houses. Rent included.

    Also not sure what 3rd world counties you have been to but the ones I have been to food is drastically cheaper than here in the US. You can go to the Philippines and get a good sit down meal at a nice restaurant for 3 to 5 dollars US. Same as in Thailand or Bangladesh. Show me where in the US you can do that. Maybe you should try and get away from the tourist areas.

    Using untrue claims does not help your cause.
    1. I said that prices on housing are cheaper in other places, didn't I? But not so much the other things. Tell you what - how about you look online at the cost of everything from lawnmowers to lunchboxes - the prices at a Wal-Mart near Ft Bragg are not much different than they are at a Wal-Mart near Ft Lewis. Sorry, soldier, but you gotta get up earlier in the morning to be able to get over this retired Navy man.

    2. You haven't been to the PI in a long time, have you? I have a home there and know the people and culture fairly well, I was just there in March, my son's living there, I'll be retiring there - I know a little bit of what I'm talking about. 3-5 dollars does NOT get you a sit-down meal at a nice restaurant in Manila. It'll get you an okay meal at some tindahan in the province, but even in the province that will NOT get you a "nice sit-down meal"...and in Manila the best you'll get with $5 is a burger meal at a fast-food joint. Pizza Hut there costs nearly as much as it does here - but the delivery charge is much cheaper. And you should recheck the prices in Thailand - as I recall from my port visits there, it's a bit more expensive than the PI (though I can't speak of the areas far to the north). Bangladesh, on the other hand, is a whole different ball of wax - I've no doubt you can live very cheaply there...but some things there might well cost more than here.

    I do not use untrue claims - I honestly try to make sure I don't say anything I'm not confident that I can back up. If you can prove me wrong, then please do so.
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    1. I said that prices on housing are cheaper in other places, didn't I? But not so much the other things. Tell you what - how about you look online at the cost of everything from lawnmowers to lunchboxes - the prices at a Wal-Mart near Ft Bragg are not much different than they are at a Wal-Mart near Ft Lewis. Sorry, soldier, but you gotta get up earlier in the morning to be able to get over this retired Navy man.
    Yes the cost of many goods are the same due to the fact that much of it is imported from countries that have very low or no MW. Things that use more local labor such as eating at local restaurants or having your grass mowed are higher here than places with lower MW. Also you said rent is not lower in low wage areas which is just wrong. The town house I lived in at Bragg was very similar to the one we first rented up here in WA. The rent was almost half back there
    2. You haven't been to the PI in a long time, have you? I have a home there and know the people and culture fairly well, I was just there in March, my son's living there, I'll be retiring there - I know a little bit of what I'm talking about. 3-5 dollars does NOT get you a sit-down meal at a nice restaurant in Manila. It'll get you an okay meal at some tindahan in the province, but even in the province that will NOT get you a "nice sit-down meal"...and in Manila the best you'll get with $5 is a burger meal at a fast-food joint. Pizza Hut there costs nearly as much as it does here - but the delivery charge is much cheaper. And you should recheck the prices in Thailand - as I recall from my port visits there, it's a bit more expensive than the PI (though I can't speak of the areas far to the north). Bangladesh, on the other hand, is a whole different ball of wax - I've no doubt you can live very cheaply there...but some things there might well cost more than here.

    I do not use untrue claims - I honestly try to make sure I don't say anything I'm not confident that I can back up. If you can prove me wrong, then please do so.
    I was in the PI last year and yes you can get meals for that price. Of course Manilla is more expensive. It is a big city that has a much higher cost of living and they pay much higher wages than down in the southern islands. Kind of proving my point that higher wages result in higher costs. As to Thailand where were you on your port call. Right where all the other Sailors go. Do you really think the prices were not marked up due to all the Americans visiting. They often even charge tourists a different price than locals. You need to go to the non tourist areas like I said. Last time I was in Thailand me and the buddy I was with ate at a small out of the way restaurant and both our meals and a beer each cost right around 7 US. That's total not just mine.
    And it's not just food but anything that isn't imported from clothes to taxi rides are much cheaper. And I am talking real taxis not Jeepneys or Tuk-Tuks

    Here is a link to average food prices in Thailand. Notice that a meal in a inexpensive restaurant is right around 2 dollars and a 3 course meal for two at a midrange restaurant is just over 17 dollars or 7.5 per person. Try finding anything close to that in high wage place.

    Cost of Living in Thailand. Prices in Thailand.
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  5. #185
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    The concept of a minimum wage is downright silly in a capitalistic economy. If you dont like your salary then go find another job, its as simple as that.
    Sorry, but no. It is never as simple as just going out and grabbing another job.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  6. #186
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    I was in the PI last year and yes you can get meals for that price. Of course Manilla is more expensive. It is a big city that has a much higher cost of living and they pay much higher wages than down in the southern islands. Kind of proving my point that higher wages result in higher costs. As to Thailand where were you on your port call. Right where all the other Sailors go. Do you really think the prices were not marked up due to all the Americans visiting. They often even charge tourists a different price than locals. You need to go to the non tourist areas like I said. Last time I was in Thailand me and the buddy I was with ate at a small out of the way restaurant and both our meals and a beer each cost right around 7 US. That's total not just mine.
    And it's not just food but anything that isn't imported from clothes to taxi rides are much cheaper. And I am talking real taxis not Jeepneys or Tuk-Tuks

    Here is a link to average food prices in Thailand. Notice that a meal in a inexpensive restaurant is right around 2 dollars and a 3 course meal for two at a midrange restaurant is just over 17 dollars or 7.5 per person. Try finding anything close to that in high wage place.

    Cost of Living in Thailand. Prices in Thailand.
    Then you were really out in the bundoks...especially if you were where I'm pretty sure you went. Judging prices in the Philippines as a whole by what you saw down there is like trying to judge prices in the States by what you see in the MS Delta.

    Either way, you did not have a sit-down meal at a nice restaurant for $3-$5 dollars. For instance, here's an example of one such place in the Mindanao and Sulu area where the main course if P200 - that's about $5 by itself, before any appetizers, sides, or especially drinks (alcoholic or not). Here's a Vietnamese restaurant - and such are not normally known to be especially expensive - in Davao where the main dishes cost about P250 - a little over six dollars - again, before appetizers, sides, or drinks of any kind. Okay, guy? There's a lot of Americans in the PI who know it better than I do - most of whom are retired military like myself - but you ain't one of them.

    Where did I go on my port calls in Thailand? Each time, first to Pattaya and then to Bangkok. And I would caution you against trying to use Numbeo to back you up - they're obviously off base since Lonely Planet - which is a well-regarded and trusted source by travelers who know the areas really well - has been around long before the Internet, and says something quite different from Numbeo. See the restaurants on this page to better judge prices in Baht.

    Oh, and did you notice that you sorta changed your tune? You said one could have a sit-down meal at a nice restaurant for $3-$5 in the PI..."Same as in Thailand or Bangladesh". Now you're saying a mid-range meal in Thailand for $7.5. Let's not move the goal posts, please. And you really shouldn't compare Thailand to Bangladesh - I haven't been to Bangladesh, but I don't think I'd be far off if I said the two are night-and-day.
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Then you were really out in the bundoks...especially if you were where I'm pretty sure you went. Judging prices in the Philippines as a whole by what you saw down there is like trying to judge prices in the States by what you see in the MS Delta.

    Either way, you did not have a sit-down meal at a nice restaurant for $3-$5 dollars. For instance, here's an example of one such place in the Mindanao and Sulu area where the main course if P200 - that's about $5 by itself, before any appetizers, sides, or especially drinks (alcoholic or not). Here's a Vietnamese restaurant - and such are not normally known to be especially expensive - in Davao where the main dishes cost about P250 - a little over six dollars - again, before appetizers, sides, or drinks of any kind. Okay, guy? There's a lot of Americans in the PI who know it better than I do - most of whom are retired military like myself - but you ain't one of them.

    Where did I go on my port calls in Thailand? Each time, first to Pattaya and then to Bangkok. And I would caution you against trying to use Numbeo to back you up - they're obviously off base since Lonely Planet - which is a well-regarded and trusted source by travelers who know the areas really well - has been around long before the Internet, and says something quite different from Numbeo. See the restaurants on this page to better judge prices in Baht.

    Oh, and did you notice that you sorta changed your tune? You said one could have a sit-down meal at a nice restaurant for $3-$5 in the PI..."Same as in Thailand or Bangladesh". Now you're saying a mid-range meal in Thailand for $7.5. Let's not move the goal posts, please. And you really shouldn't compare Thailand to Bangladesh - I haven't been to Bangladesh, but I don't think I'd be far off if I said the two are night-and-day.
    Wow really a difference of 2.5 dollars is now moving the goal posts. Get real. Besides what started this whole discussion was you saying food was not much cheaper in 3rd world countries. So where can you get a 3 course meal for 7.5 dollars in the US. You can barely eat at Mcdonalds for that. And seeing as the inexpensive restaurant was 2 dollars I think the average is on my side not yours.

  8. #188
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    Wow really a difference of 2.5 dollars is now moving the goal posts. Get real. Besides what started this whole discussion was you saying food was not much cheaper in 3rd world countries. So where can you get a 3 course meal for 7.5 dollars in the US. You can barely eat at Mcdonalds for that. And seeing as the inexpensive restaurant was 2 dollars I think the average is on my side not yours.
    A difference of $2.5 sure doesn't sound like much, does it? Except that it's 50-83% HIGHER than your earlier estimate. Context, guy.

    And you want to point out that $7.5 meal in Thailand...dude - try affording that on LOCAL wages, because even in "high-wage" Manila, it was NORMAL for the locals to get less than $4/day. I was paying our full-time maid P1000 - about $25 - per freaking week, and my wife's family was complaining we were paying her too much! And this was "high-wage" Manila, mind you.

    Sorta puts that really cheap $7.5 meal in a different context, doesn't it?

    Try again, guy - we can do this all day long.
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    A difference of $2.5 sure doesn't sound like much, does it? Except that it's 50-83% HIGHER than your earlier estimate. Context, guy.

    And you want to point out that $7.5 meal in Thailand...dude - try affording that on LOCAL wages, because even in "high-wage" Manila, it was NORMAL for the locals to get less than $4/day. I was paying our full-time maid P1000 - about $25 - per freaking week, and my wife's family was complaining we were paying her too much! And this was "high-wage" Manila, mind you.

    Sorta puts that really cheap $7.5 meal in a different context, doesn't it?

    Try again, guy - we can do this all day long.
    First of all the inexpensive restaurant is 2 dollars and the 7.5 dollar meal is the average for the entire country. The much higher prices in Manila and other tourist destinations bring the average up. You can with out a doubt get a meal at a restaurant that is not fast food for 5 dollars. You really are arguing nonsense here.

    Secondly and most important is that it seems that you forgot what you were trying to argue in the first place. You claimed that food was not cheaper in 3rd world countries even though they have much lower wages. The cost in the US is 10 and the inexpensive restaurant and 45 at the mid range. So how does that back up your claim that food was not much cheaper in 3rd world countries. Kind of proves you wrong does it not.
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  10. #190
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    First of all the inexpensive restaurant is 2 dollars and the 7.5 dollar meal is the average for the entire country. The much higher prices in Manila and other tourist destinations bring the average up. You can with out a doubt get a meal at a restaurant that is not fast food for 5 dollars. You really are arguing nonsense here.

    Secondly and most important is that it seems that you forgot what you were trying to argue in the first place. You claimed that food was not cheaper in 3rd world countries even though they have much lower wages. The cost in the US is 10 and the inexpensive restaurant and 45 at the mid range. So how does that back up your claim that food was not much cheaper in 3rd world countries. Kind of proves you wrong does it not.
    Guy, you're really digging yourself in deeper and deeper.

    1. Here's the price list for Jollibee in the Philippines - ALL through the Philippines, from "high-wage" Manila to low-wage wherever. You can get a meal there for two bucks (80 pisos)...but lemme tell you, it ain't much of a meal...and if you know anything about the PI, you know that drink is about the size of what would be called a "courtesy cup"...if we're being generous about it. On a side note, I just went to Jollibee yesterday - there's one at Southcenter.

    2. And YES, the food is NOT much cheaper. Tell me, guy - did you LIVE there? Did you go shopping at the local supermarkets or down to the outdoor market? I did - and except for certain things, food is NOT much cheaper in supermarkets there than it is here. If you want to live on the cheap - which we did when I started running too low on funds to afford the supermarket - then you go to the outdoor market called the 'palengki' (can't remember the spelling). Food is significantly cheaper there...and it's all buyer beware. Sanitation? Hah! Flies crawl all over the meat in the open air, and they don't even try to shoo them away. You do not know how old the meat or the fish is, or whether it was diseased before it was slaughtered. The veggies, though, are a safer bet if you know what to look for (and I mostly do).

    So...yeah, if you don't care about what you and I know of as common-sense sanitation procedures for meat and other foods, then yes, food's significantly cheaper there. But if you want to be reasonably sure that you're not going to get e. coli or whatever, then you're going to be paying nearly as much as you do here.

    3. But that's just food...which means we got away from my original point about how high-tech items like computers and cars are generally more expensive - and sometimes twice as expensive - as here in the states. Low wages didn't bring those prices down, did they?

    I'll be there later this year, and I'll probably retire there late next year. Drop by and I'll show you just how expensive it can get. There's a place called Fort Bonifacio - it's got showrooms for Maserati, Lamborghini, and Rolls Royce. Go about a klick in any direction you want, and you're back among the squatters.
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