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Thread: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    My guess would be population density / location, for as long as that lasts.

    Most noticeable is that businesses fleeing California due to their business hostile regulations, high taxation and high cost of doing business. Just this week Toyota announced they were moving to Texas.
    you can think of a handful of companies that left, plenty of companies are also locating to california, and plenty of businesses and startups are in Washington as well . and virtually none of Toyotas workers are working for minimum wage. and what the righties ignore, is that Toyota USA's factory is already in Texas and the move was to move corporate headquarters nearer to their plant, virtually no major manufacturing was done in CA. are you telling me toyotas corporate execs and senior management were making MW and so toyota moved to take advantage of a lower wage?
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And YOUR judgement is grossly flawed - why? What you're not getting is that the REASON that Costco has a historically low turnover and concomitant training costs is because they pay a lot more...and the REASON that Sam's Club has a historically high turnover and concomitant training costs is that they pay Wal-Mart wages.

    Or what part of "people like to stay where they get paid more and leave from where they get paid less" do you not get?
    YOu're doing exactly what the people who did the study and creating a scenario to sudy that gives the results you/they want. This study CHOSE two places where the differences between them was so dramatic and fulyy supported the hypothesis that they started with. It's was a goal-based study and not one that was that intended to find truth. If the idea that you and they support is so easily proven, then why use such an easily attacked methodology?? Why not take tow comparable groups of companies study them in aggregate and see how the changes effected not only them, but the communities they occupy as well?? Given a choice of doing a study the right way and doing it the wrong way, they chose the wrong way. That choice alone should send up red flags for everyone who wants to know the truth instead of just being "proven" right. Seek truth in all things, even when it makes you wrong.
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Y'know, look at Hawaii sometime, the land where milk is $9/gallon and house prices are hideous. Just because prices are higher doesn't mean the market can't bear it.

    And market forces are universal, right? The law of supply and demand apply everywhere, right? Then why is it that when I go to a third-world nation, Starbucks costs almost as much as it does here? Why is it that food still costs almost as much as it does here? Why is it that cars and electronics cost twice what they do here? This is despite the fact that poverty is so rampant in such places.

    My point is, the fear that higher wages automatically results in higher prices is not an iron law - it is not an infallible rule of economics. If it were, then why is food not much more expensive here in high-cost Puget Sound as it is in the poverty-ridden MS Delta? Why are the costs the same? The houses are cheaper there, but rent is not that much cheaper. Motel rooms cost the same there as here. Gas costs just a little less than it does here. Walk into a convenience store and pretty much EVERYTHING costs the same there in the MS Delta as it does in Puget Sound.

    If high wages automatically equaled higher prices, then that would NOT be the case - almost everything would be cheaper! But it's not. Why is that?
    Are you sure you have actually been away from Washington State. Not only is housing much cheaper in places with lower wages but so is a ton of other stuff. Why do you think BAS that the military pays is almost half in Ft Bragg NC as it is here at Ft Lewis. It is because everything is significantly cheaper not just houses. Rent included.

    Also not sure what 3rd world counties you have been to but the ones I have been to food is drastically cheaper than here in the US. You can go to the Philippines and get a good sit down meal at a nice restaurant for 3 to 5 dollars US. Same as in Thailand or Bangladesh. Show me where in the US you can do that. Maybe you should try and get away from the tourist areas.

    Using untrue claims does not help your cause.

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    So we can regulate automation just as easily as wages. You haven't suggested an unsolvable problem. Businesses have flourished with far lower corporate profits in the past when taxes were higher and the minimum wage worth more when adjusted for inflation.

    I've suggested exactly where the money will come from, higher paid workers will spend more money on slightly higher prices and businesses will have to eat some of the increase to keep business they would otherwise lose.

    You still haven't explained why states with higher minimum wages have lower rates of unemployment and more business presence then states that only have the federal minimum
    How exactly are you going to regulate automation. Tell a company how many kiosks it can have. Sounds like a great idea.

    Why do you think that company's will just eat the some of the added cost of the increase. When has that ever happened. Most likely they will simply take there prices to cover it and guess what. We are back to square one.
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    The concept of a minimum wage is downright silly in a capitalistic economy. If you dont like your salary then go find another job, its as simple as that.

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    you can think of a handful of companies that left, plenty of companies are also locating to california, and plenty of businesses and startups are in Washington as well . and virtually none of Toyotas workers are working for minimum wage. and what the righties ignore, is that Toyota USA's factory is already in Texas and the move was to move corporate headquarters nearer to their plant, virtually no major manufacturing was done in CA. are you telling me toyotas corporate execs and senior management were making MW and so toyota moved to take advantage of a lower wage?
    A single example of many businesses fleeing and relocating to other states. Got some background on that, which I can dig out if you wish. Take away is that business goes to locations where it's easier to conduct business.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    The concept of a minimum wage is downright silly in a capitalistic economy. If you dont like your salary then go find another job, its as simple as that.
    no it isn't; simply because the concept of structural forms of unemployment is even sillier regarding your line of reasoning.

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I have to third-world countries and didn't observe prices the same, or higher than The States.
    Here's a HP Envy 14-K038TU Core i5-4200U 750GB 14in Laptop - Prices in Philippines on Price Me of a computer in the Philippines - $1k-$1.3K USD with the exchange rate.
    A price on a comparable PC from Amazon - $745.

    But I speak of the PI too often, so here's from a blog from an expat in Ecuador:

    Imported items are expensive, locally produced items are not. So, a Maytag washer/dryer could be double the cost of a similar appliance that is manufactured in Ecuador. Watch for sales and always negotiate. Furniture and mattresses are available locally so if you shop around your furnishings should be pretty reasonable. But there are things you will need that are not cheap. Electronics, TVs, imported Smart Phones, and Computers are some of those things. So, how do you get these on a budget?

    Buy technology that is a year or two old. Last years Plasma Television will be your cheapest bet on a flat screen compared to the same size LED. New technology is expensive. Sometimes twice as much. Same thing goes for computers. This years iMac desk top will cost a fortune but you can find last years PC for prices that are not to much more than what you would find in the states.


    Here's a page where a guy was wondering why the heck electronics are so much more expensive in India.

    "You name it; LCD/LED TVs , computer components, cellphones, home theater, ps3, Xbox are costlier compared to their price in China, South East Asia, and Usa. If one were to convert the price from US Dollars to Indian Rupees for the electronic products being sold they come out at least 30-40% cheaper in the USA !"

    You'll probably find instances where hi-tech items are cheaper in a third-world nation, but they're generally at least as expensive as they are here in the states. And it's often because of the government and corruption - especially since there's less oversight of the government by the press...and less oversight of the business sector by the government.

    In other words, the oh-so-holy market forces often do NOT apply as conservatives assume they should.
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  9. #179
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Seattle's economy will continue to grow as a whole due to corporate investment, and only the types who never make minimum wage will benefit.

    I believe we need a higher minimum wage, but unless its enacted amongst a backdrop of trade and regulatory reforms a higher minimum wage will not benefit most workers.
    Mmmm...I disagree that those making MW will not benefit if the MW is raised to $15 - they certainly will. But I agree that we sorely need those trade and regulatory reforms.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    thank you for not addressing the actual facts.
    I did address the facts - you just didn't like the way I did it.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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