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Thread: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    The successful businesses you are seeing is the market in equilibrium. Now along comes this large increase in labor costs, upsets the apple carts all over.

    Round and round the cost increases go, until the market settles on the new set of numbers and equalizes again. Those that you wish to help won't see anything but a short term gain, only to be lost when all the other prices increase. Remember the balloon example? It really does work that way.

    I still don't see how you can jump a businesses' cost by that much without them raising their prices to compensate, regardless of how well they run their business. How much experience in the Restaurant business do you have? Last I heard their margins were very thin. That being the case, there's no flexibility or ability on their part to absorb that cost increase in labor. They have little choice but to pass it on to their customers. The customers are going to react to that. More will stay home.
    The economic system is not a balloon. I can call the economy a steel plate, you can push your thumb in it all you wish....

    There is no evidence raising the minimum wage causes job loss. None at all. If minimum wage caused job loss, then why is it that there's a single grocery store, or restaurant in spokane washington, where the minimum wage is 2.59 higher then post falls Idaho just a mile across the state line? Why would anyone open a business in WA at all? Instead far more retail businesses operate on the WA side of the border then on the Idaho border.The majority of MW employers are service sector and those jobs are linked to their area. Seattle is a flourishing city with many new businesses.... A MW increase will not cause job loss....
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And when - when! - Seattle's economy continues to grow after the $15/hour MW is in effect, what will the conservatives say then?
    All I know is mcdonalds teenager who drools on my burger better ****ing give me better service otherwise he doesn't deserve a penny more than what he is getting already.

    Better pay = better service

    I demand EVERYONE being affected positively by this change up their game if they aren't doing so already, because there is a reason why someone like a relationships manager or lawyer or doctor get more money than someone who works at fast food.
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    The economic system is not a balloon. I can call the economy a steel plate, you can push your thumb in it all you wish....

    There is no evidence raising the minimum wage causes job loss. None at all. If minimum wage caused job loss, then why is it that there's a single grocery store, or restaurant in spokane washington, where the minimum wage is 2.59 higher then post falls Idaho just a mile across the state line? Why would anyone open a business in WA at all? Instead far more retail businesses operate on the WA side of the border then on the Idaho border.The majority of MW employers are service sector and those jobs are linked to their area. Seattle is a flourishing city with many new businesses.... A MW increase will not cause job loss....
    So in your reality, labor prices go up a significant amount, and nothing happens? I find that hard to believe. There will be a market reaction and adjustment.

    Where does the money come from for those increased wages? Now granted, only minimum wage jobs are going to affected by this increase.

    Why don't you elaborate as to what you think'll happen should this come to pass? How will the market adjust and compensate?
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    San Francisco was a front runner in raising the minimum wage to a living wage. The screams of the naysayers were piercing. The gloom and doom predictions were loud and clear.

    That was over 10 years ago. They seemed to prosper.

    San Francisco's Higher Minimum Wage Hasn't Hurt the Economy - Businessweek

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    So in your reality, labor prices go up a significant amount, and nothing happens? I find that hard to believe. There will be a market reaction and adjustment.

    Where does the money come from for those increased wages? Now granted, only minimum wage jobs are going to affected by this increase.

    Why don't you elaborate as to what you think'll happen should this come to pass? How will the market adjust and compensate?
    Well not just my reality, in reality. Again Spokane versus post falls. Which city is bigger? Which has more minimum wage service sector employment? If your theory was correct then Post Falls, ID would be a bigger city with a lower unemployment rate. Not only is Post Falls a smaller city with higher unemployment, but most of their employed people work in Spokane! How is this possible if lower wages and regulation is what causes growth?

    No time has a minimum wage increase been shown to cost jobs, now maybe a 15 dollar per hour is too dramatic an increase and will cause problems, but 10 or 11, the economy wouldn't blink..... And if large businesses can't sell their products for more money as you think, then maybe Mcdonalds will settle for a measly billion in profits instead of 1.6 billion in profits. What a tragedy....
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    I say, "Good. Let Seattle do it." Then, maybe, we can see the effects in real life over theory and make a determination one way or another.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Well not just my reality, in reality. Again Spokane versus post falls. Which city is bigger? Which has more minimum wage service sector employment? If your theory was correct then Post Falls, ID would be a bigger city with a lower unemployment rate. Not only is Post Falls a smaller city with higher unemployment, but most of their employed people work in Spokane! How is this possible if lower wages and regulation is what causes growth?

    No time has a minimum wage increase been shown to cost jobs, now maybe a 15 dollar per hour is too dramatic an increase and will cause problems, but 10 or 11, the economy wouldn't blink..... And if large businesses can't sell their products for more money as you think, then maybe Mcdonalds will settle for a measly billion in profits instead of 1.6 billion in profits. What a tragedy....
    So, no answer to my question of where does the money come from to pay for the increase in wages, other than a snide remark about how the company will just have to do with fewer profits.

    Do you recall the fast food worker strikes earlier? Must have been over the course of the last calendar year. Big publicity in the main stream media.

    You know what shut all the coverage down, and why there aren't anymore strikes?

    McDonalds showed off their kiosk system which would replace all the cashiers, around 1/2 their labor force.

    For the record, it's kinda a part of business to go forth and make the most money it can, increasing shareholder value, one it's objectives. McDonalds will pay prevailing wages for the labor that it needs to do it's business.

    My guess is that you don't own a business, and you don't run a business. Otherwise you'd understand much more about all this than what you apparently do.

    So, where is the money coming from for the increase in wages that a $15 / hr min wage would demand? How does a business deal with it's costs going up in such a significant measure?

    I don't think that you've really addressed that beyond an off hand snide remark about reduced profits.

    CBO says different.
    Effects of the $10.10 Option on Employment and Income

    Once fully implemented in the second half of 2016, the $10.10 option would reduce total employment by about 500,000 workers, or 0.3 percent, CBO projects (see the table below). As with any such estimates, however, the actual losses could be smaller or larger; in CBOs assessment, there is about a two-thirds chance that the effect would be in the range between a very slight reduction in employment and a reduction in employment of 1.0 million workers.
    The Effects of a Minimum-Wage Increase on Employment and Family Income - CBO

    And I'll wager that prices will increase to cover the difference, which means that the customers are going to have to pay more, which means that the customers will be buying less, which means that there'll be a drop in demand for whatever it is that the min wage workers are doing.
    Last edited by eohrnberger; 05-04-14 at 12:34 AM.
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    I believe it is an Obligation of the general government to pay the debts of even the several United States, especially when promoting federal Standards.

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    So, no answer to my question of where does the money come from to pay for the increase in wages, other than a snide remark about how the company will just have to do with fewer profits.

    Do you recall the fast food worker strikes earlier? Must have been over the course of the last calendar year. Big publicity in the main stream media.

    You know what shut all the coverage down, and why there aren't anymore strikes?

    McDonalds showed off their kiosk system which would replace all the cashiers, around 1/2 their labor force.

    For the record, it's kinda a part of business to go forth and make the most money it can, increasing shareholder value, one it's objectives. McDonalds will pay prevailing wages for the labor that it needs to do it's business.

    My guess is that you don't own a business, and you don't run a business. Otherwise you'd understand much more about all this than what you apparently do.

    So, where is the money coming from for the increase in wages that a $15 / hr min wage would demand? How does a business deal with it's costs going up in such a significant measure?

    I don't think that you've really addressed that beyond an off hand snide remark about reduced profits.

    CBO says different.
    The Effects of a Minimum-Wage Increase on Employment and Family Income - CBO

    And I'll wager that prices will increase to cover the difference, which means that the customers are going to have to pay more, which means that the customers will be buying less, which means that there'll be a drop in demand for whatever it is that the min wage workers are doing.
    So we can regulate automation just as easily as wages. You haven't suggested an unsolvable problem. Businesses have flourished with far lower corporate profits in the past when taxes were higher and the minimum wage worth more when adjusted for inflation.

    I've suggested exactly where the money will come from, higher paid workers will spend more money on slightly higher prices and businesses will have to eat some of the increase to keep business they would otherwise lose.

    You still haven't explained why states with higher minimum wages have lower rates of unemployment and more business presence then states that only have the federal minimum
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
    "Be careful of averages, the average person has one breast and one testicle"
    -Dixy Lee Ray

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    So we can regulate automation just as easily as wages. You haven't suggested an unsolvable problem. Businesses have flourished with far lower corporate profits in the past when taxes were higher and the minimum wage worth more when adjusted for inflation.

    I've suggested exactly where the money will come from, higher paid workers will spend more money on slightly higher prices and businesses will have to eat some of the increase to keep business they would otherwise lose.

    You still haven't explained why states with higher minimum wages have lower rates of unemployment and more business presence then states that only have the federal minimum
    My guess would be population density / location, for as long as that lasts.

    Most noticeable is that businesses fleeing California due to their business hostile regulations, high taxation and high cost of doing business. Just this week Toyota announced they were moving to Texas.
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