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Thread: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

  1. #151
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Restaurants are not going to go out of business.... Plus if you inject earned wealth into a class of people who don't make much they'll spend almost all of the increase, so with more dollars to spend the increases will be affordable. Also in Seattles case, if a downtown urban restaurant in a city with daytime population of over a million people has margins so thin that a 3 or 4 dollar bump in pay is going to break them then they haven't been running their business well for some time... Go visit any restaurant In downtown seattle between 8 am and 5 pm and tell me they're suffering..... There's no shortage of paying customers during the business day
    The successful businesses you are seeing is the market in equilibrium. Now along comes this large increase in labor costs, upsets the apple carts all over.

    Round and round the cost increases go, until the market settles on the new set of numbers and equalizes again. Those that you wish to help won't see anything but a short term gain, only to be lost when all the other prices increase. Remember the balloon example? It really does work that way.

    I still don't see how you can jump a businesses' cost by that much without them raising their prices to compensate, regardless of how well they run their business. How much experience in the Restaurant business do you have? Last I heard their margins were very thin. That being the case, there's no flexibility or ability on their part to absorb that cost increase in labor. They have little choice but to pass it on to their customers. The customers are going to react to that. More will stay home.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

  2. #152
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    The value placed on the work rendered is not some sort of guarantee of being able to sustain yourself. The market places a value on the work rendered, by the value that is generated from that work, the number of people who would be willing to perform that work and how much compensation they would demand for doing so. In other words market competitive wages.

    Distorting that with some sort of misguided idea that mandating a higher minimum wage, and not expecting the market to react in some other negative, more undesirable manner is not being realistic.

    If you envision the market being an inflated balloon, and you poke it with your finger as a mandated higher minimum wage, the balloon, i.e. market, is going to bulge out in another place.

    TANSTAAFLE = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. This also applies to minimum wage hikes. They aren't free either.

    In the given discussion, it was observed:


    If 31.9% of the cost structure of a business jumps by double or triple, there is little choice by the business than to increase their prices to customers by a compensating amount. People aren't going to pay it. They are going to eat at home. The Restaurant will go out of business. The result will be a net loss, potentially a significant one, of economic activity to the loss of everyone.

    Surely you can the cause-effect chain here.
    If the job isn't "worth" paying someone to do, perhaps the job shouldn't exist.

    Restaraunts are a crappy example because the wait staff already makes well below minimum wage, under the assumption that tips will bring them up.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It doesn't make sense to say liberals believe the minimum wage should go to $50/hour, nor does it make sense to say "if X is good, then 1000X must be 1000X better!" That's child-like logic you are displaying. You. Not me, or any other liberal on this message board. You invented the $50/hour minimum wage idea.

    If it's good to eliminate some regulations, is it good to eliminate all regulations? Less regulation is good, right?
    If it's good to cut taxes, is it good to cut all taxes?
    If it's good to spend more on the military, is it good to spend twice as much on the military?
    I never said Libbos said that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I never said Libbos said that.
    I'm sorry. I misunderstood. You believe that $50/hour is a good idea. I disagree, but you're free to lobby for it. That's the great thing about America, we can discuss our differences of opinion like adults and not stoop to silly namecalling.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    The successful businesses you are seeing is the market in equilibrium. Now along comes this large increase in labor costs, upsets the apple carts all over.

    Round and round the cost increases go, until the market settles on the new set of numbers and equalizes again. Those that you wish to help won't see anything but a short term gain, only to be lost when all the other prices increase. Remember the balloon example? It really does work that way.

    I still don't see how you can jump a businesses' cost by that much without them raising their prices to compensate, regardless of how well they run their business. How much experience in the Restaurant business do you have? Last I heard their margins were very thin. That being the case, there's no flexibility or ability on their part to absorb that cost increase in labor. They have little choice but to pass it on to their customers. The customers are going to react to that. More will stay home.
    I suppose if you want to destroy a business, and the jobs it provides, it's a good way as any to do it! So people have a little more money in their wallet - until they go to spend it and find that they still can't afford what they want? Are the people who think these things up living in a different reality?

  6. #156
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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    If the job isn't "worth" paying someone to do, perhaps the job shouldn't exist.

    Restaraunts are a crappy example because the wait staff already makes well below minimum wage, under the assumption that tips will bring them up.
    True. And the times that I've been employed in a Restaurants the waiter or waitress were kind enough to tip their bus boys, who were also making less than minimum wage.

    There are crappy jobs that are probably offered too low compensation, and then they go unfilled until the compensation is adjusted to what the market demands for that job. There are also instances in some fast food joints that are paying well above minimum wage, and those are always filled with the pick of candidates. That's kinda how a market based on competition and free will works, and efficiently allocates capital, labor and other resources. Far more efficient than any government mandated system.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    If the job isn't "worth" paying someone to do, perhaps the job shouldn't exist.

    Restaraunts are a crappy example because the wait staff already makes well below minimum wage, under the assumption that tips will bring them up.
    It might not be worth $15 per hour.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    The value placed on the work rendered is not some sort of guarantee of being able to sustain yourself. The market places a value on the work rendered, by the value that is generated from that work, the number of people who would be willing to perform that work and how much compensation they would demand for doing so. In other words market competitive wages.

    Distorting that with some sort of misguided idea that mandating a higher minimum wage, and not expecting the market to react in some other negative, more undesirable manner is not being realistic.

    If you envision the market being an inflated balloon, and you poke it with your finger as a mandated higher minimum wage, the balloon, i.e. market, is going to bulge out in another place.

    TANSTAAFLE = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. This also applies to minimum wage hikes. They aren't free either.

    In the given discussion, it was observed:


    If 31.9% of the cost structure of a business jumps by double or triple, there is little choice by the business than to increase their prices to customers by a compensating amount. People aren't going to pay it. They are going to eat at home. The Restaurant will go out of business. The result will be a net loss, potentially a significant one, of economic activity to the loss of everyone.

    Surely you can the cause-effect chain here.
    What we're most likely to see...IMO...is that these jobs will go to people who are actually worth $15 and the folks who are still only worth $7 will be **** out of luck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I'm sorry. I misunderstood. You believe that $50/hour is a good idea. I disagree, but you're free to lobby for it. That's the great thing about America, we can discuss our differences of opinion like adults and not stoop to silly namecalling.
    It was sarcasm to illustrate a point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Seattle mayor unveils plan for $15 minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    What we're most likely to see...IMO...is that these jobs will go to people who are actually worth $15 and the folks who are still only worth $7 will be **** out of luck.
    Yeah, I can see that happening. Liberal / progressive ideas of what should be 'right' often implemented in government mandates has exactly the opposite effect than desired, and are often explained away as 'unintended consequences', then they are neither.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

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