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Thread: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    The question this brings up is....would the militia have turned out if the BLM hadn't been so aggressive? That's the thing about the government using force. The more they use the more it gets noticed.
    If there's something I've learned from this event it's this:

    If I'm ever in need of a private army of idiot orcs, I'll just declare "the federal government doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned". And the morons will come pouring in.

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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    1: It did not require that many when they first arrived.
    Yes, it did. The guy had been in defiance of federal court orders for 20 years and was declaring the federal government non-existent. That kind of nutbag absolutely requires overwhelming force, for the safety of everyone involved.

    2: The BLM could also very well have used the FBI as an enforcement arm also. Which is my point. There are open avenues available to the BLM to get laws enforced. There is no reason for them to have their own personal police force.
    Less than a platoon of men for the entire country is reasonable, maybe too few. There is no need to deplete local PDs or the local FBI office (and outing the agents). A couple squads of BLM police was plenty and saved everyone headache.

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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    The question this brings up is....would the militia have turned out if the BLM hadn't been so aggressive? That's the thing about the government using force. The more they use the more it gets noticed.
    The armed response the BLM put up was just that, a response.
    It was no secret that the Bundy organizers had put out a call to arms across the nation in the days and weeks before the confrontation getting individuals and militias to show up from as far away as New Hampshire and Idaho. As it was the BLM didn't have enough armed responders available and had to summon the SWAT team from Las Vegas.
    The "aggression" was on the Bundy / militia side of things. The Feds just responded to an aggressive armed insurrection.
    You got it backwards ...again...

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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    What they don't show is that the BLM started coming in with guns drawn before the militias were even there. At the time they moved in all they had to contend with is Bundy and his family.
    It's my understanding that the only person who made that claim was Bundy's wife and her claim can't be verified. You'd think that with such a big family and farm to run that at least a few more people would've noticed an "army" of 200 LEOs, snipers, helicopters, drones, and SWAT teams moving in. But no, she's the only one.

    A Federal judge issued Bundy a court order not to intervene in the round up and removal of his cows off federal land clear back in Oct, 2013. But as usual he ignored it and when the round up started in March he called the Clarke County Sheriff and threatened a range war. The Sheriff took him seriously and put the BLM on notice that out of state anti-government militias were coming. A couple days later, the militias show up wearing combat gear and brandishing guns. If you were the BLM and knew these guys were coming...wouldn't you call in a back up....just in case? The pictures show there were only about 20 rangers and a 3 man SWAT team....and two dogs at the base camp. The helicopter was used to spot and round up the cows which is common practice nowadays.


    That's what the Police is for. They're the ones that are supposed to be enforcing the laws.
    State and local police never used to enforce federal law,....did that change?
    Last edited by Moot; 05-01-14 at 05:42 AM.

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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Let me get this straight...

    The GOP is pro gun, let everyone have guns even kids.... but if you are working for a federal agency then you are not allowed to have guns? Hypocrisy much?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Yes, it did. The guy had been in defiance of federal court orders for 20 years and was declaring the federal government non-existent. That kind of nutbag absolutely requires overwhelming force, for the safety of everyone involved.

    Less than a platoon of men for the entire country is reasonable, maybe too few. There is no need to deplete local PDs or the local FBI office (and outing the agents). A couple squads of BLM police was plenty and saved everyone headache.
    Outing FBI Agents? That's a bit hyperbolic don't you think? They wouldn't have done that and I'm sure that you know that.

    Regardless of the situation, regardless if its about Bundy or someone else and regardless of how many agents were used vs how many were actually needed. There is no need for the BLM to have it's own enforcement squad. It is a regulatory agency and such agencies should not have a police force. It creates a biased situation. There's a reason why our legislature does not have direct control over our armed forces but only have control through measures and laws. It helps prevent abuse.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    State and local police never used to enforce federal law,....did that change?
    I'm going to stop talking about Bundy as this is not really about him but about a regulatory agency being armed with a police force.

    As for this part, State and Local police are allowed to enforce federal law, particularly when working in co-ordination with a government agency. It's always been like that.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Regardless of the situation, regardless if its about Bundy or someone else and regardless of how many agents were used vs how many were actually needed. There is no need for the BLM to have it's own enforcement squad. It is a regulatory agency and such agencies should not have a police force. It creates a biased situation. There's a reason why our legislature does not have direct control over our armed forces but only have control through measures and laws. It helps prevent abuse.
    Who told you that?

    Pretty much all of these agencies:

    Major U.S. Federal Regulatory Agencies

    Have enforcement responsibilities and corresponding officers.

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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Let me get this straight...

    The GOP is pro gun, let everyone have guns even kids.... but if you are working for a federal agency then you are not allowed to have guns? Hypocrisy much?
    If that's what you're getting from this then you need to re-read. We're not talking about their right to own a gun for self defense. We're talking about a regulatory agency using it's own police force to enforce its regulatory power. Such an agency should not have its own private police force. That's what the FBI and police are for. To enforce laws and regulations. The BLM should be using them instead of its own police force.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    If that's what you're getting from this then you need to re-read. We're not talking about their right to own a gun for self defense. We're talking about a regulatory agency using it's own police force to enforce its regulatory power. Such an agency should not have its own private police force. That's what the FBI and police are for. To enforce laws and regulations. The BLM should be using them instead of its own police force.
    Using local police or the FBI to enforce federal court orders requiring 40 officers and a full day (of rounding up cows) is absurd.

    Having a small contingent of officers takes the headache off local resources.

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