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Thread: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Yes I fully believe that they have a right to defend themselves. But there is a big difference between defending oneself and going in with guns drawn.
    I thought it was the protestors and militia that moved in on the BLM camp. At least that's what the pictures show.

    Doesn't mean that they should have that. No agency should have that ability if they make regulations unless it is the legislature of a state or the country. Too much conflict of interest. Such enforcements personnel should be seperate as it can create bias.
    Well, considering what they have to deal with, a SWAT team seems warranted in some cases. What happens in Vegas doesn't always stay in Vegas....or Mexico.

    Have you ever read the Monkey Wrench Gang by Edward Abbey? Abbey is a real hero here. He tried to prevent the government from taking the land, too. But they never attacked or threatened people...only property. Bundy's gang has threatened to hurt people.

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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I thought it was the protestors and militia that moved in on the BLM camp. At least that's what the pictures show.
    What they don't show is that the BLM started coming in with guns drawn before the militias were even there. At the time they moved in all they had to contend with is Bundy and his family.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Well, considering what they have to deal with, a SWAT team seems warranted in some cases. What happens in Vegas doesn't always stay in Vegas....or Mexico.
    That's what the Police is for. They're the ones that are supposed to be enforcing the laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Have you ever read the Monkey Wrench Gang by Edward Abbey? Abbey is a real hero here. He tried to prevent the government from taking the land, too. But they never attacked or threatened people...only property. Bundy's gang has threatened to hurt people.
    Nope, never read it. Have heard of it though.
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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    What they don't show is that the BLM started coming in with guns drawn before the militias were even there. At the time they moved in all they had to contend with is Bundy and his family.
    Bundy was a known liar and thief. He had disobeyed court orders for 20 years. He had declared the federal government as non-existent. By all counts, the guy was a nutbag and a dangerous one. Overwhelming force was justified.

    One does not confront "feds don't exist" nutbags with 38s.

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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Bundy was a known liar and thief. He had disobeyed court orders for 20 years. He had declared the federal government as non-existent. By all counts, the guy was a nutbag and a dangerous one. Overwhelming force was justified.

    One does not confront "feds don't exist" nutbags with 38s.
    I'd rather a small family be confronted with .38's than 20-30 AK-47's. (and yes, I know, those BLM agents didn't use actual AK-47's. It was just to make a point) Besides, the Police have the same weapons available to them that the BLM actually did use. Why not use the police? If the BLM used the police instead of its own little army then they wouldn't have to have their own little army. Which means less taxpayer money spent on something that is redundant and not needed.
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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I'd rather a small family be confronted with .38's than 20-30 AK-47's. (and yes, I know, those BLM agents didn't use actual AK-47's. It was just to make a point) Besides, the Police have the same weapons available to them that the BLM actually did use. Why not use the police? If the BLM used the police instead of its own little army then they wouldn't have to have their own little army. Which means less taxpayer money spent on something that is redundant and not needed.
    Who would patrol the streets and deal with local police business while the department was busy dealing with a "feds don't exist" nutbag?

    Overwhelming force was justified. Requiring the local PD to put everything on hold (for the majority of a day) to execute a federal court order is not reasonable.

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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Who would patrol the street while the department was busy dealing with a "feds don't exist" nutbag?
    Other police officers. At least that's how its normally done.
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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Now that we have that out of our systems I still support what the guy said in the OP quote. As a regulatory agency they should not be going around toting guns.
    They need to be armed. The ridiculous display of armed anarchy this month is reason enough to support the small law enforcement division of this regulatory bureau. There is a total of 250 of them that are armed ...nationwide. It's not a huge force.
    Would you dis-arm the National Forest Service as well?
    Considering some of the nut-jobs they have to deal with in wilderness situations, their being armed is a must IMHO.

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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Other police officers. At least that's how its normally done.
    The situation required 20-40 officers for the majority of the day. Asking a small local PD to do that is not reasonable. There would have been little to no police presence in the town for a day. The BLM having a squad or two makes these things much easier on local resources.

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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    They need to be armed the ridiculous display of armed anarchy this month is reason enough to support the small law enforcement arm of this regulatory bureau. There is a total of 250 of them that are armed ...nationwide. It's not a huge force.
    Would you dis-arm the National Forest Service as well?
    Considering some of the nut-jobs they have to deal with, their being armed is a must IMHO.
    The question this brings up is....would the militia have turned out if the BLM hadn't been so aggressive? That's the thing about the government using force. The more they use the more it gets noticed.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Utah lawmaker moves to disarm BLM, IRS, says ‘They’re not paramilitary units’

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The situation required 20-40 officers for the majority of the day. Asking a small local PD to do that is not reasonable. There would have been little to no police presence in the town for a day. The BLM having a squad or two makes these things much easier on local resources.
    1: It did not require that many when they first arrived. Yet they arrived with that many. Someone refusing to pay a fee is hardly reason enough to bring 20-40 BLM agents armed to the teeth. There was no indication that Bundy would have been violent before all this started. (now though I'm not sure since his ego has no doubt inflated)

    2: The BLM could also very well have used the FBI as an enforcement arm also. Which is my point. There are open avenues available to the BLM to get laws enforced. There is no reason for them to have their own personal police force.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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